I will be buying this book. Question to Clay. Did Langford knock down Jack Johnson as the above bio I posted said or not? PS: I have heard rumors of Jeanette vs Langford. ESPN classic claimed to own it, but has never shown it.
"Question to Clay. Did Langford knock down Jack Johnson as the above bio I posted said or not?" Tough to say for sure one way or the other, on one hand I didn't come across any newspaper accounts of the fight that confirmed Johnson was knocked down by Langford. On the other hand Johnson allludes to being knocked down by Langford in his 1910 book printed in French titled 'Mes Combats'. I also read that Fleischer's father in law, A.D. Phillips, told him that Johnson went down from a slip in Phillips opinion during the fight, but that occured at the same time Langford struck him with a body blow.
Cmoyle, Check your message box here. Here's what I was talking about: On April 26, 1906 the two heavyweight challengers, Langford and Johnson, met. 28 years old, Johnson, almost six foot tan and weighing 185 pounds, towered over 20-year-old Langford who weighed Just 155 at 5'6". From round one to seven Sam stood up to Johnson and fought him to a standstill. Every time Johnson hurled his famous knockout punch, Sam would duck just in time. Round eight. They clinched. Johnson broke away and walloped a terrific hook to Sam's jaw. Sam toppled to the floor. At the count of nine he struggled shakily to his feet. Johnson chopped him down again. Langford, his face swollen and his nose broken, wobbled up and hit back desperately. Round Ten. Langford put his whole 155 lbs. behind a straight jab that caught Johnson right under the heart, and Johnson's' face contorted with pain as he fell to the canvas. "Four, five, six" Johnson was back up on his feet and the carnage continued. For 15 rounds Langford held his own with the mighty Jack Johnson, and so savagely did he counterattack that it was Johnson who was the more exhausted at the end. Yes, Johnson won by a decision over a man half a foot shorter and thirty pounds lighter!
[YT]UdM-2oyWoMo[/YT] About Johnson-Langford. This took place in Chelsea, which is right outside of Boston which is where Sam fought out of. Langford had only been a pro for a few years but had already faced Gans, Jeannette, Walcott, and Blackburn in his 58 fights. Langford went down about 3 times although the ringside observers have different stories about some details. Some suggested that Jack carried Sam over the 15 because the latter was a Boston man... considering the times, this is not in the least unlikely. Johnson would often carry guys for his own somewhat mercurial reasons but he would not hesitate to do it for the right price. The myth of the knockdown is exactly that: a myth. It was begun by Joe Woodman who was Sam's trainer/manager and it was precisely to get a rematch with the rising star/bogeyman in Johnson. Nat Fleischer knew this and lamented it. What most don't know is that the two actually fought again within the week at a benefit at the Hub Theatre in Boston. It was 9 minutes that would have made Hagler-Hearns look like paddy-cakes. There was no ring so the two went hurling over stage sets and chairs and Jack tried to throw Sam off of the stage, butting, punching, wrestling... until someone finally stopped it.
"Some suggested that Jack carried Sam over the 15 because the latter was a Boston man... considering the times, this is not in the least unlikely. Johnson would often carry guys for his own somewhat mercurial reasons but he would not hesitate to do it for the right price." Hard to believe Johnson carried him. According to Langford he won a $500 sidebet with Johnson because Johnson failed to knock him out. And the failure by Johnson to do so against the much lighter and smaller man did little in the eyes of the public to support his case for a match with Jeffries at the time. "The myth of the knockdown is exactly that: a myth. It was begun by Joe Woodman who was Sam's trainer/manager and it was precisely to get a rematch with the rising star/bogeyman in Johnson. Nat Fleischer knew this and lamented it." I cover all sides of this in my book, but was left wondering why Johnson mentioned being knocked down in his 1910 book 'Mes Combats'. "What most don't know is that the two actually fought again within the week at a benefit at the Hub Theatre in Boston. It was 9 minutes that would have made Hagler-Hearns look like paddy-cakes. There was no ring so the two went hurling over stage sets and chairs and Jack tried to throw Sam off of the stage, butting, punching, wrestling... until someone finally stopped it." That's a version of the exhibition that Langford gave us well. I have a newspaper account of the exhibition that gives the impression it was a tame affair between the two, and that Johnson was careful not to hit Sam in his still badly damaged eye.
johnson was only 185lb, he grew to a stronger more mature 205lb at his peak. Johnson did what he was supposed to do with that version of langford, dominate him,
Mendoza, it doesn't appear that the website allows me to respond to a private message at this point until I've entered 41 more posts. My contact information is available at www.prizefightingbooks.com
It's just a shame the two men never met again after Johnson won the title because we're left to speculate as a result. It is interesting to note that Joe Jeannette, who fought both men a number of times, always said that Langford would have taken Johnson's title anytime Johnson would have given him a shot at it. There was a period of time where Langford was certainly the most worthy challenger, and like I say it's a shame that 2nd fight didn't take place.
come off it man no one says he can walk on water. just ride on the back of dolphins and sharks:thumbsup
It might intest you to know that papers such as the N.Y. Times said Johnson had a 50,000 offer from HD Mcintosih to fight Langford. Johnson also had big time money offers to fight Mcvey and Jeanette. Another article says Johnson was about to sign to fight Langford but did not. This might interest you. I hope you can open them up. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9800E3DB1F3CE633A25750C1A9669D946396D6CF http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9506E3DC113CE633A25753C3A96E9C946296D6CF http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9800E3DB1F3CE633A25750C1A9669D946396D6CF http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9906E5DD133CE633A25751C1A9669D946396D6CF http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9906E5DD133CE633A25751C1A9669D946396D6CF
It's murky back there. Perhaps Johnson was paid far more by Woodward to carry him. Additionally, by looking more vulnerable against the smaller man, Johnson would do better to lure Jeffries out. Everyone knew that the color line was a cover up for the general reluctance of white fighters to face the great black fighters at the time. Ketchel would not have lasted 2 rounds against Johnson had he not carried him. I don't wonder too much, but only because Johnson was known for his flowery writing. As you know, the newspaper accounts were often contradictory depending on any number of factors. One thing that is clear is that both Johnson and Langford report that the former gave the latter a real beating in Chelsea.
"It might intest you to know that papers such as the N.Y. Times said Johnson had a 50,000 offer from HD Mcintosih to fight Langford. Johnson also had big time money offers to fight Mcvey and Jeanette. Another article says Johnson was about to sign to fight Langford but did not." Thanks, I think I pretty much have all of those articles already. I researched the 1 1/2 years that Langford spent in Australia pretty extensively, as well as the times, just prior, and afterward, and include quite a bit of material about Hugh McIntosh's efforts to match Johnson with Langford.