Sam Langford The Best Fighter Of All Time?

Yeah, all of those debates where I tore you a new ******* (you must have about 5 unneccessary gaping holes in your body by now) really exposed my lack of boxing knowledge. Why not try backing any of your arguments up with something? Anything? Ever?

I understand the circumstances of Langford's career, I've heard and read them countless times. I find it both humorous and annoying that a little second rate chicken **** like you thinks he can teach me anything, when you've clearly already exposed your stupidity to myself and many other forum members.

Anyways, I was simply saying his resume is nowhere near as deep as seems to be the common perception. He beat roughly 15-16 very good to great fighters in his 300 some odd fight career. I didn't say that he as a fighter should rate especially lower, because his accomplishments as they stand are still pretty spectacular. I certainly don't think he was the best of all time, though.

 

Make that 6 holes.

 

Well he did fight the same boxers often but from what I can see he fought eleven hall of famers in his career, Gans, Walcott, Jeanette, Johnson, Ketchel, McVea, O'Brien, Wills, Norfolk, Godfrey and Flowers over a host of varying weights. Beating eight of them, Gans, Jeanette, McVea, O'Brien, Wills, Norfolk, Godfrey and Flowers. Not bad for a guy who fought the same opponents over and over again I'm sure you'll agree.

 

He's got you on this one.

While Langford's accomplishments are great, he doesn't have the depth and variety of quality on his resume that Greb does.

Does it mean Langford fought only bums? Absolutely not.
Does it mean there's not a great list of wins there? Absolutely not.
Is it Sam's fault it's not deeper? Probably not, I'd wager, given the circumstances of the time.

But one doesn't have to believe any of that to still think Greb's resume is superior by a noticeable margin. I happen to hold that opinion myself. I've noticed when the color line is drawn, it's usually only the white fighters' rep that suffers, but in reality, the perception of the black fighter's resume should suffer just as much from the unanswered questions of not fighting the absolute best from both sides of the line, even though it's not their fault. It's still something that shouldn't go ignored in a historical context, but routinely does.

With Greb, that's not an issue because the man did fight everybody, and fought excellent fighters more routinely than Sam did.

 

Good point.

 

Langford was a naturally larger man (regardless of his starting weight at 17 years old) and a much bigger puncher than Greb, so it's only logical that he'd be more successful against Heavyweights. Greb never got his chance to face Dempsey, so I guess we'll never really know how well he could've fared against the best Heavies. We do know that Langford lost far more often than not to Wills, though.

 

OK. You're making an entirely new debate out of a minor point in my post. I wasn't arguing this.

Yes, that makes him a better HW, which noone disputed in the first place.

And Greb has a far higher quantity of great results than Langford has at any weight or any combination of weights. More facts.

 

Not really. Langford was actually able to test himself against one of the best HW's of the era in Harry Wills many, many times. Far more often than not he came up short, which is understandable given the size difference, but it still gives a real measure of his HW standing. We never really got to see how Greb would've fared against similar opposition. That's my point.

Langford has the best "real" wins because he was the naturally larger man and the far bigger puncher, much better equipped to take on heavier fighters. Again, that is only logical. With everything taken into consideration, I believe the Greb's series against Tunney is more impressive in an overall sense than Langford's series against Wills. Would you agree?

Also, the gap between their resumes is more in terms of quantity than quality. Langford beat a fair amount of excellent fighters, and his wins at the top rival anyone's. However, Greb's record against top level opposition is much more varied and deep. It depends on what you prefer as to how you'd rate their resume's in comparison to one another.

Don't really know what you're saying here, man.

 

Yes. Yes. **** yes.

 

Who's Sam Langford?....Kidding, enjoying the debate here, teaching me a thing or two :thumbsup