Sam Langford vs Max Baer

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ali Frazier, May 17, 2014.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The heavyweights that faced Langford considered he hit very hard for a heavyweight ,in fact I believe they were unanimous in picking him as the hardest puncher they met.
    This included Harry Wills.
     
  2. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Hyperbole, and I'm sure that of all the opponents Langford faced, if you asked them all they'd come up with many different names about who hit them the hardest. They might even come up with different names every time you asked them. If I were to make a guess, I'd assume that Sam McVey hit harder. Harry Wills probably hit harder. Jim Jeffries, Fred Fulton, Jack Dempsey, Denver Ed Martin, etc.
     
  3. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What on earth is this based on?
     
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  4. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    I think all of those guys were known to have good punches, and all of those guys were substantially larger physically than Langford. All of them were elite heavyweights of roughly the same time period as Langford fought in. They also all have impressive KO records against 200+ pound 6'+ type guys.

    I'm aware that Langford beat some bigger guys on points. He even knocked out a few. But I view the idea that a 5'7" 185 lb. guy has the same punching power as a 6'3" 220 lb. guy with some skepticism. If you claimed he was a better boxer, I might give you that, but not a physically stronger one. I think his mythical punching power is more a product of what he accomplished at middleweight and light heavyweight, or what he accomplished against smaller heavyweights such as himself than against what qualifies as a heavyweight today.

    Why do you think they don't punch harder than Langford? Why do you think that Sam Langford hit harder than Jim Jeffries and Jack Dempsey?
     
  5. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    His power clearly comes from his oddly long arms and the leverage he is able to generate with them. Typically a guy who has long arms like that but is short has a hard time getting enough stank on his punches. Langford did things with his punches that Ive never seen anyone else do quite like that. I dont think there is anything "mythical" about his power. He could bang, that much is clear and its proven in the footage we have him.
     
  6. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I still can't understand how Sam McVea could be rated a truly great puncher. He never stopped Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette or Harry Wills despite facing all four of the mentioned fighters multiple times. Yes, McVea compiled a very impressive knockout record when facing other fighters besides the mentioned four, but that didn't make him a great puncher by itself.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
  7. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    That's the difference between a great puncher and a great boxer. He had the power to KO guys, he just couldn't get it on target enough to KO the best guys.

    Deontay Wilder, probably a great puncher, probably not a great boxer. Earnie Shavers, great puncher, not a great boxer. Max Baer from what I've seen of the film looks like a better puncher than boxer. I think I heard Chris Byrd give an interview once where he said DaVarryl Williamson hit harder than the Klitschkos. And Archie Moore said the hardest he's ever been punched was Yvonne Durelle, not Marciano. That's why I included Denver Ed Martin as a guy who probably hit harder than Langford, even if he couldn't outbox him. Buddy Baer, Primo Carnera, great punchers, not so great boxers.
     
  8. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good matchup but I would lean towards Langford. In his prime he was a terror. Max is durable and has size and a killer punch as well but Sam is an ATG.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Langford had the same size chest measurement as Lennox Lewis, he had huge shoulders and as Klompton pointed out,very long arms .
    He is celebrated as one of the greatest punchers of all time indeed he is given the nod as the greatest by some very knowledgeable writers.
    Harry Wills,JimFlynn, GunBoat Smith, and Joe Jeannette, all went on record naming him as the hardest puncher they met.
    You seem hung up on size as though it has a direct correlation with power.

    Physical strength is only one facet of punching power I doubt Jimmy Wilde, Carlos Zarate,Bob Foster,Lew Jenkins,Bob Fitzsimmmons etc were appreciably stronger than their opponents.

    Some hugly muscled men are below average punchers at their respective weights.For example Carnera and Valuev were below average punchers.
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Thats about it.
     
  12. profharrygreb

    profharrygreb New Member Full Member

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    Not seen too much of Langford (has anyone?) but from the little I have seen I don't think this is very close. People talk about his brutal power, but on film he looks a beautiful boxer also, with tremendous timing and economy of movement. Good footwork, didn't telegraph like most guys of that era and great short, sharp accurate punching with either hand. Max at is best was quite a force but I can see Langford stepping inside and letting his hands go every time he winds up. I could see him taking the kind of pasting he got vs Louis.
     
  13. profharrygreb

    profharrygreb New Member Full Member

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    PS. If anyone has links to footage of Langford can they post them here?
     
  14. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    He was a big puncher Chuck. I just dont think he was that great at getting that punch home at the highest level. I have a little film of him in the ring against an unknown fighter which is either sparring, an exhibition, or a real fight. He hits this guy with a single right hand and knocks him dead.
     
  15. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    what I meant to say but may have come out wrong is that Langford looked good on film but his opponents were very crude for the most part of the films I have seen. I was not particularly impressed with any of the film back then but you have to keep it in perspective. Sam was tough and Max was a powerful guy, a big difference in him when he was motivated and not. In a fight with both men on point this would not be an easy fight. Max had a solid chin and so did Sam and this may come into play. Sam was a freak and one of those guys that could be a force in any era but I also think Max in top form is always underrated and his overall rating is not anywhere near his ability when on point.