Sam Langford vs Max Baer

Which 6ft+ 200lbs + guys did Jeffries or Martin ever stop?

 

Denver Ed Martin was a great boxer ,but not a puncher ,his stoppages over big heavyweights fit into a very slim book.
The fact that Durelle scaled 172lbs and was 5'9" when he fought Moore weighs against your argument not for it.
Carnera was not a great puncher at all.

 

Denver Ed Martin had plenty of boxing skills, but had durability problems and wasn't that good of a puncher.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Langford was a highly unusual fighter. He could have fought most of his career at 160 and never higher than 168 but he flattened heavyweights. Jeanette, Smith, Flynn and Wills all said he was the hardest hitter they ever faced. This is documented.

 

Someone mentioned their measurements

Max Baer

HEIGHT - 6ft 2 1/2in
WEIGHT - 209 1/2lb
REACH - 81in
CHEST (NOR) - 44in
CHEST (EXP) - 47 1/2in
FIST - 12in

Langford
Height - 5'7.5"
Weight - 180 lbs
Reach - 73"
Neck - 17”
Biceps - 15”
Chest 42 ½”

Lennox Lewis
Height: 6'5" (196 cm)
Weight: 250 lbs (113 kg)
Reach: 84" (213 cm)
Chest/Norm.: 44"
Chest/Exp.: 46"
Waist: 34"
Biceps: 17"
Neck: 18 1/2"
Wrist: 8"
Calf: 18"
Ankle: 11"
Thigh: 26"
Fist: 12"
Forearm: 15"

Whoever said that Langford's chest was bigger than Lennox Lewis might be mistaken.

 

Huh, this site looks cool comparing KO artists.
http://www.heavyweightblog.com/1267/ko-statistics-of-ko-kings-tyson-klitschko-shavers

Some nice stats and things there.

Name Max Baer
Total KOs within 12 rds 52
Fair KO ratio 64%
Median KO victim weight 196 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 8
Median non bummy KO victim 188

Name Sam Langford
Total KOs within 12 rds 121
Fair KO ratio 40%
Median KO victim weight 187
Total KO wins (non-bums) 12
Median non bummy KO victim 194

Name Earnie Shavers
Total KOs within 12 rds 68
Fair KO ratio 76%
Median KO victim weight 200 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 7
Median non bummy KO victim 206 lbs

Name George Foreman
Total KOs within 12 rds 68
Fair KO ratio 83%
Median KO victim weight 213lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 15
Median non bummy KO victim 216 lbs

Name Harry Wills
Total KOs within 12 rds 54
Fair KO ratio 54%
Median KO victim weight 199 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 14
Median non bummy KO victim 191 lbs

Name Jack Dempsey
Total KOs within 12 rds 50
Fair KO ratio 61%
Median KO victim weight 200 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 8
Median non bummy KO victim 196 lbs

Name Joe Frazier
Total KOs within 12 rds 27
Fair KO ratio 72%
Median KO victim weight 197 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 9
Median non bummy KO victim 198 lbs

Name Joe Louis
Total KOs within 12 rds 50
Fair KO ratio 73%
Median KO victim weight 193 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 20
Median non bummy KO victim 193 lbs

Name Lennox Lewis
Total KOs within 12 rds 32
Fair KO ratio 76%
Median KO victim weight 227 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 15
Median non bummy KO victim 235 lbs

Name Mike Tyson
Total KOs within 12 rds 44
Fair KO ratio 80%
Median KO victim weight 217 lbs
Total KO wins (non-bums) 17
Median non bummy KO victim 225 lbs

 

They say a lot of things don't they? I've seen fighters misremember so many things. They remember winning fights they clearly lost. They remember throwing fights, or going down to make it look good. They remember getting the better of their opponents in a street fight later. They remember their opponents begging them not to KO them, or blaspheming God. They remember their opponents admitting that they'd won a fight the judges said they lost. They remember getting the better of an elite boxer in sparring. They remember helping people cheat.

They might have been being polite and flattering at the time they said those things, like say at a eulogy. They might not remember the exact circumstances very well, like they'd been hit in the head a bunch. Or they might have been caught at just the right time to say something like that, like before they fought someone tougher. Or they might not have fought many tough people to make a great comparison. There's a number of reasons they could have said what they said, or believed whatever they believed.

In a time of small heavyweights like Tommy Burns, Bob Fitzsimmons, Stanley Ketchell, Fireman Jim Flynn, Tom Sharkey, were dominant and the average weight was about 182 lbs I'm sure Sam Langford was very impressive and cut quite a figure.

 

I said Langford's chest measurement was the same as Lewis's , and Ive seen it referred to as such several times.
Langford's expanded chest was 46"

Langford knocked out 6''2" 210lbs Harry Wills twice.
6'3" 224lbs Jim Johnson.
Stopped Sam McVey,Iron Hague,Klondike etc.

He kod more men over 175lbs than under it ,he has 179 wins with 128 kos, that's a 72 ko % , pretty impressive to me.

Below Harry Wills comments on Langford's power.
"
I still don't know what punches Sam used to knock me out. When the fourteenth began I was going easy. Sam was in a bad way. I backed him around the ring trying to set him up for a one punc hfinish. His eye was bleeding and the last thing I remember was having him against the ropes just about 5 feet from the corner, It must have happened then"

"In the 18th Sam was in a peck of trouble and when the bell sounded for the 19th I was after him again. I figured if I could get him into the corner I could finish the fight. That was all I could remember. He must have caught me as I rushed in. I don't know how long I was unconcious but, it must have been quiet a while."


As far as size goes ,and it appears to go a long way with you,how do you account for ther fact that Jim Jeffries,Jack Johnson,Tom Sharkey,JimCorbett, & Bob Fitzsimmons all stated that Supermiddleweight Joe Choynski hit them harder than anyone?

Is it true ,or did they all "misremember" it the same way?

 

Langford via UD or TKO.

 

I have some of Langford's work out clips. He is a bulky compact man.

 

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he was a 5'7 freak as was the small Choynski, it happens but very rare ...I think GGG may be able to beat some heavyweight but not the best these days....Langford would be more competitive than the 5'9 James Toney who did well against the big boys at an advanced age

 

Harry Wills went 20-2 against Langford. I'd expect Max Baer to do at least that well.

As for the quotes you can probably cherry pick all you want if you know the eras newspapers well enough. Jack Johnson called Jeanette "the toughest man I ever fought." and he'd fought Sam Langford. So is Joe Jeanette better than Sam Langford?

Besides, men who weren't as good as Max Baer beat Sam Langford. Langford has 44 losses, 9KO losses, and 54 draws on his record. Obviously he had flaws and was beatable just like any other fighter. He dropped losses to more than just Jack Johnson, Sam McVea, Harry Wills, and Joe Jeanette. I'm seeing losses to Jeff Clark, Gunboat Smith, Fireman Jim Flynn, Young Peter Jackson, Larry Temple, Dave Holly, Danny Duane. This guy had weaknesses and could be beaten and not just by the best.

 

I've mentioned here before that I thought James Toney was the modern version of Sam Langford, but with roids. He beat an old Holyfield, and a not so great but not that bad John Ruiz. He didn't have what it took to beat Lewis, a Klitschko, or maybe some other top heavyweights but he could hang in at the bottom levels of the heavyweight class, which was pretty impressive considering his size. Dwight Qawi also did considerably better than expected. I see them both as a template for how well Sam Langford would have done in the modern era.

 

In addition to being much shorter than Harry Wills, Langford was past his peak at the time of his bouts with him. Wills may not have been than much younger than Langford, but he began fighting on a regular basis at a fairly advanced age. As a result, Wills had relatively little wear-and-tear on his body when having his series of bouts with Langford.

- Chuck Johnston