This fight would likley have taken place if Stanley Ketchel had not been murdered. Interestingly, the purses on offer for this match were much bigger than those offered for a Johnson Langford title fight at the time! My questions are: Would Langford have won? If Langford had won, what would the public reaction have been to a black middleweight champion?
I think that if Langford had won this fight he would have become a de facto white hope and the Johnson fight would have happened. As this fight takes place well after 1910 as you imagine it, I would favour Langford to win that fight. So the ATG p4p #1 slot would have been settled beyond dispute, with Langford reigning as the greatest fighter to have ever lived. And you've got to imagine Langford would have won, presuming he can make the weight without trouble in 1912 or 13 without killing himself, which is not certain.
I think Langford making weight is certainly the issue. You could get a Lavigne Walcott situation, where the act of making the weight defeated the stronger fighter.
Hmmm, that's certainly how it could be (but perhaps a little hard on Lavigne, who was peaking for Walcott's "weightgate").
It must be known that when Stanley Ketchel fought Sam Langford on April 27,1910 , Sam Langford had more than 10 pounds on Ketchel. A sizable amount of weight to spot Sam Langford... Five months later Ketchel was murdered.... During that time it was fairly known that Ketchel was doing drugs.That is why he went to a ranch in Missouri, to "recuperate", and met his end at the hands of Walter Dipley, who served 23 years in prison...
Whatever narcotics of the time. I can't say offhand as I have the biography back home,but whatever it was, Stanley was going downhill and was invited to rest at the home of a Col.Dickerson in Missouri..Turned out to be a permanent rest for the 24 year old Michigan Assassin.... Ketchel was one tough M.F.
I'd heard rumor that he began sampling the product at the opium dens of San Francisco. But again, this is just rumor. In regards to the race question, by the time Sam would have won we'd already had a black bantamweight champ (Dixon), a black lightweight champ (Gans) and two black welter champs (Walcott and Dixie Kid). Aside from a few grumblings and such from certain corners having a problem "watching a black man pound a white man"(this from an observer watching Dixon destroy Skelly in the 1800s) there wasn't much of a to-do one way or the other. I don't see why there would be if Langford won the middleweight title.
There is little doubt that Langford carried Ketchel in the hopes of setting up a big money rematch for the title ... no knock on Ketchel who was a warrior but he was not in Langford's class. In addition, Ketchel's style was tailor made for Sam. Ketchel was also on the down side of his career. Too many wars, too much booze and opium ... it was all taking it's toll ...
he,whether Ketchel or Langford would have won their bout ,at middleweight,we will never know.But to say Ketchel was not in Langford's class as a 158 pounder,does an injustice to Ketchel's memory. I have read that many famous boxing afficionados of that time had said,"those who saw Ketchel fight,can see no other".He was so highly regarded by those who had seen him at his peak when he flattened 49 fighters in 64 fights. So i say, as a middleweight Stanley Ketchel, was in ANYONE'S class. P.S. For today's naysayers who see Ketchell in 2 film clips.One against Billy Papke in 1909,when he broke a bone in his hand,but won a 20 rd decision, and the debacle against the large Heavyweight Champion Jack Johnson in 1909. How can we judge his greatness on these two bouts alone and overlook his FORTY NINE knockouts, against the likes of Phil Jack O'Brien Mike and Jack Twin Sullivan,Joe Thomas,Billy Papke,Hugo Kelly etc. Let us judge Ketchel on those 49 knockouts, instead of the 2 films we see today. His memory and legacy that his contemporaries saw and raved about, should not be ignored....
Ktchel was an animal, and great fighter. His fight with Johnson was legit. He also ko'd lightheavy champ. Langford carry him? No, I don't think so.
Ketchel's brave and crazy, but Langford takes him out anytime he wants [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxJOy_taioQ[/ame] www.youtube.com/eslubin
I think Sam would have beaten Ketchel in a great, great fight. I also think the public would have taken to him as he was reasonably well liked and respected by both whites and blacks of his era. On top of this I think it would have forced a fight with Johnson who would have been running out of even more excuses had Langford won a title. That gunshot on Oct. 15, 1910 not only took Ketchels life, but the last hope of Sam ever fighting for a title.
