This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected
To minimize the importance of that bout, and state that their second bout in 1905 was more important because it led to the a bout with Johnson, who at that time was only a contender, is a point I completely disagree with. Look, Im not going to get into another pissing contest with you. My logic in the belief that this was arguably Sam's most important victory is based around the entire context of that fight. You encapsulate that fight into a Langford-Jeanette scenario, when in fact it was very much about the anti-Johnson sentiment at the time, the rush by rival promoters to stage the Johnson-Johnson bout against the Langford-Jeanette bout as a means of trying to overshadow Langford (Which was largely unsuccessful) and to show that he was still an active champ. The very fact that Johnson fought that bout allowed him to silence, to a degree the Federation, which is why they had to sanction the Johnson-Moran fight the following year. The entire context of that fight, which was largely ignored, made it, as I have stated before, arguably Langford's most important victory. It was certainly the closest he ever got to the HW championship. Did he have "better" wins? Probably. But to me this fight, at the time, and during Langford's life, was the most IMPORTANT victory of his career. There was certainly a larger political backdrop there that needed to be told but wasnt. Whether you disagree with me, or not I think its a valid criticism, and one of the few I had of your book. Its similar to the logic some people use when saying that Greb's most important win was his victory against Tunney, when, during his life it wasnt at all. He was completely expected to defeat Tunney who was still not yet in his prime. Its only when you take that win out of context and place it in light of what Tunney later accomplished that it begins to take on a greater importance. In my opinion, when one examines what was going on in France at the time, this was his most important victory.
You're definately entitled to your opinion, and I respect it, regardless of whether or not I agree with it. I mainly took exception with the comment about only devoting two sentences to the fight in the book. I would still be interested to learn what others think Langford's most important victory was. In fact, now that you mention it, it might be interesting to learn what others, as well as yourself, do believe Greb's most important victory was while we're at it. I'd agree with your point about it not being his initial victory over Tunney. Believe it or not, I still hope to one day get an opportunity to read your book on Greb.
It is a good question. I am thinking the 1912 dec 26 KO of McVey was probably the best. I think it probably established the superiority of Langford over McVey and with it came Langford's status as the best fighter never to win the world title. I think the Jeanette fight Klompton talks of was also very important. At the time, i think that win over Philadelphia Jack O brien is another huge win, and one that is underated today. O Brien was a former world heavyweight champion and Light heavyweight champion and known as a world class foe,who was near impossible to stop. This might have been Sam's biggest and most important win. Of course i could be totally wrong, what do you guys think? It is funny, Langford seems to have been successful because of the number of opponents consistently beaten rather than because of the high caliber of opponents beaten (not that he didnt beat great fighters).
His win over Joe Gans by far! Two wks later he was in against Jack Blackburn. now that's a man. If Arum or King had a talent like that more recently to promote he'd be undefeated and making over $50 million a fight distant runner up: his come from behind KO of wills, his thrashing of the dixcie kidd and his demolitions of george godfrey. so nice, he did all three twice! lol [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TroTAs25RkU[/ame] www.youtube.com/eslubin
Just ordered your book Mr Moyle............interested to read it, have meant to read it for a while :good
On flim, the win over Jeanette. On his record? Maybe his KO over Wills when Langford was past his prime.
Yes, my book is still available. You can find it on Amazon, or if you prefer to order an inscribed or signed copy directly from me you can do so via my website www.samlangford.com or by emailing me at This content is protected .
The knee jerk reaction might be to say that Greb's most important win was his title winning effort against Wilson, his victory over Walker, or even some of his wins over P4P fighters. Greb had a lot of great victorys and important wins but in my opinion Greb's most important win was Tommy Gibbons IV. Of course he had "better" wins but the Tommy Gibbons IV fight was the biggest buildup and most important victory for him as it was sorrounded by massive media attention and really propelled him into stardum. After his unlooked for victory Greb was everywhere. He was doing radio spots, starring in vaudville, doing exhibitions and guest stints as referee, and writing in newspapers. The fight also solidified his standing as a top contender/title threat at MW, LHW, and HW and very nearly got him a shot at Jack Dempsey. Once he beat Gibbons, and in the fashion that he beat him, nobody was dismissing him anymore. That was the fight that broke Greb into the big time.
I guess my own knee jerk reaction might be to say the same thing concerning Langford's wins over Gans and Hague for a similar reason. Gans was the lightweight champion of the world at the time, and as a result of his victory over Hague he became the heavyweight champion of England. Many British fans, still bitter over Johnson's backing out of an agreement to fight Langford at the National Sporting Club should he win the title from Burns, claimed Sam was the new world heavyweight champion. The period of time, 1909, would have been a great time for a second fight between Langford and Johnson. Greb-Dempsey is obvously another fight that should have happened. Tim Cohane, the sports editor of Look Magazine quoted Tunney on the matter as saying, "Greb was a clever fighter, but so was Dempsey, and he had the instinct to kill you. I do not subscribe to the theory, offered occasionally, that Greb would have outpointed Dempsey. Jack would have caught Harry eventually and knocked him out. Dempsey, to my mind, was the greatest fighter who ever lived." Of course, some believe that Tunney's calling Dempsey the greatest fighter who ever lived was his way of elevating himself to that position, given that he defeated Dempsey twice. And if Tunney himself outpointed Dempsey twice, albeit over two ten round bouts, whose to say Greb might not have been able to do it as well?
The only scheduled 45 rounder of Sam's career was Fireman Flynn III on Saint Patrick's Day, 1910. He had just turned 27, and was auditioning for the movie camera. Flynn would take nearly a year off, then rebound from this eighth round knockout loss to embark on a career best 10(9KO)-0-0 streak, not losing again until his title shot at Johnson. Coming before Johnson-Jeffries, this was Sam's best opportunity to be seen in American nickelodeons prior to the ban on the interstate transport of boxing films.
