Santos Saúl Álvarez Barragán vs. Caleb Hunter Plant & Elvis Rodríguez vs. Juan Pablo Romero RBR

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Nov 6, 2021.


  1. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

    29,380
    36,038
    Jul 24, 2004
    Sorry to disappoint you. My bad. Or rather Caleb's bad.
     
    Wizbit1013 likes this.
  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    398,536
    80,581
    Nov 30, 2006
    This content is protected


    :lol: What a pleasant exchange considering one guy knocked out the other just a couple of rounds later.

    Kind of wish we had this sort of listen-in on all fights.
     
    CST80 likes this.
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    242,168
    235,606
    Nov 23, 2013
    :lol:

    Look Olu, I like you personally, but we're never going to agree when it comes to scoring, because I think you're cuckoo for coco puffs. Believe what you want, be my guest. I highly doubt you'll persuade anyone, because I'm pretty sure you're having a really hard time persuading yourself. Good for you, you like Plant, because he's a TMT guy. But that doesn't make him a great fighter or any other accolade you want to bestow upon him. He looked good against a few plodders, then when he had a guy in front of him with power who could actually land, he offered very little in return aside from jabs and a few pitty pat one twos on occasion. He's limited and away who can cut the ring off well, probably outworks him or KO'd him, including David Benavidez. So move on, I think your score is bat**** insane, you're never going to convince me or anyone else otherwise. So stop trying.
     
    Oneirokritis and BubblesUK like this.
  4. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    242,168
    235,606
    Nov 23, 2013
    Not denying any of this, merely that Canelo still with everything you said, landed the heavier more telling blows, as reflected in the punch stats, that yes... I know, aren't always reliable. But still, reflected pretty close to what I was seeing while wide awake at around 11 to 12 my time. Scoring isn't always that easy, but when two fighters are landing at a similar rate, the difference in power has to come into play. Well the power differential was a little too vast for 2 or 3 of Plant's powder puffs to negate one of Canelo's. Much less when they're landing at a similar clip. So we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
     
  5. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

    27,091
    9,988
    May 29, 2007
    Please break the rounds down round by round in detail as I feel it will enlighten the forum.
     
  6. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

    27,091
    9,988
    May 29, 2007
    I know you and I like each other personally. Like I said I am not trying to persuade anyone nor is anyone go8ng to persuade me either. Yes I am a TMT and PBC guy but that does not blind me to the merits of other. I quite like Fast Car Eddie Hearn and others. Benaivides vs Canelo will be a great fight. That could be a give and take war.
     
  7. Chuck Norris

    Chuck Norris Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,698
    36,561
    Aug 31, 2016
    This content is protected
     
  8. ElCyclon

    ElCyclon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,947
    13,183
    Dec 2, 2012

    Plant might have won more rounds if he had focused on fighting instead of trying to get Canelo's approval.
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    398,536
    80,581
    Nov 30, 2006
    Not sure the two things have anything to do with each other, considering Caleb arguably won the ninth.
     
  10. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

    9,479
    10,443
    Nov 5, 2017
    This may make for dry, monotonous reading, but it is what it is. I spared the 1st and 6th a breakdown, as these were rounds we can all agree went to Plant and Canelo respectively. I asterisked swing rounds.


    R1: Canelo 9–10 Plant

    R2: Canelo 10–9 Plant *
    Plant takes the first minute, starting behind his jab, shooting it up and down and firing a right hand into Canelo's face thirteen seconds into the round, Canelo stalking ominously but not punching until a couple of attempted uppercuts out of a clinch, Plant blocking and slipping a four-punch combination against the ropes before turning out into center ring and firing a left hook-right hand combination, Canelo blocking the first punch but eating the second with a grimace, appearing to miss to the body while throwing with Plant, eating a clean uppercut in a further exchange of power moments later while trying to find a home for his left hook to the body.
    Plant still fending Canelo off with his jab as we enter the middle portion of the round, digging a right hand behind the left elbow and into the body of Canelo and dancing out of range to foil the left hook counter, Canelo missing and being thwarted as they move from one ringpost to another, Caleb blocking a left hook to the body as the halfway point of the round arrives, laying on the ropes and attempting to emulate Mayweather's 2013 successes with the Philly Shell defence, but only partially blocking a Canelo left hook up top, thinking better of it and moving off the ropes, firing in a blocked right uppercut, before Canelo cuts him off against the ropes, Plant making a partial connect around Canelo's right glove and pulling back to ride the whipping left hook reply, Canelo parrying jabs and exerting pressure, slightly edging the second minute of the session by my lights.
    Caleb fires a blocked lead hook while cornered and soaks up a left to the body before escaping and firing a three-punch combination out of the left hand, with only the finishing hook to the beltline able to break through, Canelo exerting bullying pressure as he again presses Caleb into a corner, doing more of the punching now and blocking Caleb's attempts to work, continuing this trend 'til the end of the session.
    Canelo shades the round, but it could conceivably be scored either way.

    R3: Canelo 9–10 Plant *
    Plant starts the round positively, popping his jab through the guard and firing a right hand behind the left elbow and into the body of Canelo, Canelo throwing his first punch a full thirty seconds into the round, a left to the beltline, Canelo following Plant around the ring for the next thirty seconds with barely any punching activity from either man, Caleb shading the first minute of the round on account of his early positivity and output.
    Canelo missing punches in the corner as an elusive Plant catches him clean on the chin with a nicely timed right hand at 1:43 remaining and rolls under the left hook, being pursued into a corner where he lands his jab and momentarily ties up before escaping to ring center, Caleb eating a quality lead left hook as he skirts the ring, Canelo in pursuit, driving a right into Plant's kidney region, punctuating a skirmish in the pocket with a left hook up top as we approach the two minute mark, Caleb shaking his head dismissively but backing off, Canelo having established control over the middle portion of the round.
    Plant lands his jab out of a corner, is pursued to another, rolls under a right hand and blocks a left downstairs with his elbow, jabs to the body, eludes a Canelo left and connects with a right hand before they trade left uppercuts to the body, Canelo's having more effect, Caleb moving off and again scoring with his jab before blocking a raking hook downstairs and tying up, crowd cheering as Canelo misses with a right uppercut and left hook out of the clinch, round ends with Caleb fending Canelo off with a pawing jab and a leaping left hook, though no scoring contact.
    It's a close call, very little in it, but Plant did more of what he wanted to do than did Canelo, whose better punching was just too scarce by my lights.

    R4: Canelo 10–9 Plant *
    Caleb starts brightly again, tripling the jab into the guard and shooting his right hand in behind the elbow of Canelo again, finishing with an uncommitted left uppercut taken on the guard, continuing to jab through the opening thirty seconds while Canelo holds his fire, touching with a left uppercut to the body, Álvarez finally letting his left hand go, slipping a jab but thwarted as he tries to land his left to the body, Plant edging the first portion of the round on activity alone.
    Canelo explodes into life as we move into the round's middle portion, his flurry of power punches not making too much purchase with scoring areas, but representing concerted pressure, much more positive than the sixty seconds of indolence that preceded it, Plant fighting back as we hit the halfway mark of the round, Álvarez the more forceful in these skirmishes, with clear scoring success at a minimum, but authoritative enough to capture the middle portion of the session in my estimation.
    Plant nails Canelo with a right hand in the pocket as we enter the final third of the round, evades a big right in return, pops his jab, makes Canelo miss on a combination back in the pocket (sending the Mexican swinging off balance), absorbs a body shot (though the camera angle makes it unclear as to whether this landed or was blocked), jabbing, blocking and countering with a sharp right off the ropes, which draws an annoyed glare from Canelo, who then explodes with a big hook inside the right glove of Plant, snapping back the head of Caleb, who takes the punch well and gets back on his jab as the session winds down.
    Canelo gets the benefit of the doubt in a very tight round, but I would've scored narrowly against him if not for the quality punch landed with around twenty seconds remaining.

    R5: Canelo 10–9 Plant *
    Canelo throwing nothing for forty seconds to open the round, Plant having minimal scoring success in this period but keeping his hands active and getting his jab through a couple times before evading and blocking a pair of shots to the body as Álvarez comes to life, Caleb making contact with a lead hook upstairs, scoring with his jab, he has to claim the first minute of the session on activity alone.
    Canelo struggles to land along the ropes and is warned about hitting low, the fighters touch gloves and Plant is warned about pushing Canelo's head down, action resumes and Canelo slips Plant's jab, has partial success countering with a hook but gets tagged with a pitty-pat combination in return, nodding in acknowledgement before commencing to sink in a series of body shots along the ropes, this pocket of concerted, authoritative pressure swinging the middle portion of the round his way in my estimation.
    Plant lands his jab and shoulder-rolls a right, blocks a left downstairs on his elbow, gets back on his jab with an expression of concern beginning to appear in his brow, pushing it through the guard of Canelo and whipping a tagging right into the body before Canelo sinks a somewhat smothered/blocked left into the torso of Plant, Caleb now undoing his efforts by appearing to want to run out the last twenty seconds, dodging one left hook but dipping into another which catches him as the round winds down.
    A close round, but I favor Canelo, feeling that his pressure and harder punching gradually consumed Plant's occasional scoring activity, establishing his generalship and bullying Caleb into a palpably negative frame of mind — though, I can see how another judge might interpret it the other way, as Box Azteca's unofficial scorer did.
     
  11. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

    9,479
    10,443
    Nov 5, 2017
    (cont. from above)


    R6: Canelo 10–9 Plant

    R7: Canelo 10–9 Plant *
    Caleb starts the round jabbing to the stomach of Alvarez, his feet invert as he rides a lunging, raking left hook and he fires back with a southpaw one-two, backing Canelo off momentarily, stepping back into the orthodox stance and tying the Mexican up, busy with his jab, but to no particular scoring effect, as Canelo's punch output lulls for the next twenty seconds or so.
    Canelo's aggression flares as we enter the middle portion of the round and he stalks Plant into a corner, his punches either missing or finding non-scoring areas until a left hook catches Plant on his way out, Caleb again tying him up in ring center and blocking a left hook after they break, popping his jab out, shoulder-rolling a right hand and scoring with his own right hand counter, drawing a rueful look from Canelo, who then fires a left hook inside the right glove of Plant, making contact high on the head, following up with two further hooks, which Plant blocks and ducks while bending low, tying Canelo up again and sinking a left into his gut, then breaking out of the clinch with an attempted right hand and backing him off for a rare period of role-reversal as the round enters its final minute.
    Canelo takes a break on the ropes as Plant tentatively jabs and paws at him, wary of the counter, Canelo nodding and waving him in, lowering his gloves for an extended period and receiving a flush jab to the nose for it, before deciding he's done with that, stepping forward and chopping in a decent left hook to the head as Plant looks to shoulder him off in the pocket, action resuming in center ring after a brief referee intervention arising from a clash of heads, Plant blocking a left to the body and shooting a scoring right hand straight back as the round winds down, rolling a furious right off his deltoid, blocking a further body shot and pulling back from a jab, but eating a solid left hook just before the bell.
    It's another close session, but I give a firm enough edge to Canelo's five clear successes with the hook to the head, though I can see why some have scored it the other way.

    R8: Canelo 10–9 Plant
    Round begins with an extended skirmish, Plant jabbing, Canelo digging in with power punches and just edging this period on the basis of greater authority and purpose amid a lack of clear scoring success for either man.
    Plant enjoys a touch more scoring success with his jab in the round's middle period, also making Canelo miss on some big punches, but taking a body shot behind his left elbow while cornered and eating a counter left hook in ring center as he leaps in, a right to the body appearing to trouble him soon after, which leads to a clinch, a left hook to the body is blocked by Canelo and Plant gets back to sticking and moving as the clock counts down into the final sixty seconds.
    Canelo does the better work in the final minute to close out a round that had already swung clearly in his favor. I'm not sure how Box Azteca's unofficial scorer had this one for Plant.

    R9: Canelo 9–10 Plant
    Plant spends the first thirty seconds leading Canelo a merry dance with no punches thrown from either man (it would later transpire that Plant uses this period to experiment with some verbal gamesmanship), Canelo becoming more effective as the first minute plays out, digging his right hand to the body repeatedly and landing a sweet right uppercut.
    The middle section of the round is much better for Plant, jabbing to the stomach while Álvarez follows him into a corner, blocking a left hook up top and firing back a scoring right, then leading him to the opposite corner and scoring again with a right up top after the men trade attempts to the body, next uncorking a right uppercut and rolling under the hook along the ropes, then back to jabbing to the stomach and head.
    Caleb is able to get a couple right hands through as we near thirty seconds remaining in the round, before largely evading a six-punch burst of Canelo activity in the corner, muscling his way back into ring center, then firing off a rapid six-punch barrage of his own, with two or three making clean contact, Canelo resetting himself with a look of annoyance, stalking Plant to the ropes, landing a right to the body but ending the round having his head snapped back by the jab of Plant.
    Pretty easy to score, Plant's best round of the fight and (for the sake of trivia) the last of three that Box Azteca scored for him.

    R10: Canelo 10–9 Plant
    Plant starting brightly and landing his jab, Canelo parrying a right to the stomach and eating another jab, Plant evading a left hook but being turned into a corner where Canelo cuts him off and unleashes a couple of hard rights downstairs, first to the stomach and then behind the left elbow of Plant, prompting Caleb to tie up, Mora resetting them and Plant being walked back to the ropes where Canelo unleashes three more shots to the body, though Plant somewhat limits the impact of these, with the right hand behind the elbow again the cleanest connect, Plant raking the Canelo midsection with his left, Canelo launching a left hook to the head, the brunt of the blast being taken by the right glove of Plant, who defends a right hand to the body with his left elbow before appearing to win an exchange of left hooks up top, shelling up and taking a chopping right on his upper arm, retreating along the ropes and shielding his body from another right which again rakes his upper arm, eating a jab and blocking a left hook to the body in the corner, bullying pressure and volume of offense winning the first part of the round for Canelo.
    Mora has to reset the fighters again as we enter the middle portion of the round, Plant jabbing and blocking Canelo's left hook as he again backs into a corner and ties Canelo up, Mora resetting them once again, Plant appearing to land his right hand along the ropes but having to ride a whipping left hook in return, Canelo digging a right behind the left elbow of Plant yet again, the fighters exchanging jabs in ring center, Plant landing a right-left combination to the body and defending his own midsection from a retaliatory two-piece as the round enters its final sixty seconds.
    The fighters exchange scoring jabs and Canelo presses on, Plant again having to defend his body from a further combination before shoulder-rolling a right hand, taking a kidney punch in an ensuing tangle, letting fly a rather tired leaping hook which Canelo blocks before scoring successfully with his own (sharper) hook, digging in another kidney punch behind the elbow of Plant and coming back with another scoring hook to the head in-close before appearing to momentarily fold over with discomfort from a Plant combination to the body, Plant ripping a further two-piece downstairs out of a clinch, Canelo faking to throw the right and splitting the guard of Plant with a left uppercut, driving through the right glove with his hook and finishing the combination with a right uppercut that grazes past Caleb's nose, ripping a right to the beltline and taking a left hook in reply, digging the right to the body a couple further times before the round ends, eating jabs for fun while landing his own.
    Plant has his moments, but Canelo is just too authoritative and does too much of the better work to deny him here.


    Canelo 97–93 Plant


    Granted, I have it only a round closer than Chris, which may seem barely any less mean.

    But, having marked five rounds that could conceivably swing either way (four of which I scored to Canelo), I can see how it could be much closer.

    Of the five rounds that cannot reasonably be argued either way, Canelo has a slight 3–2 edge.

    If a scorer were to shade the swing rounds 3–2 in Plant's favor, we have an even score going into the 11th (a split of 4–1 to Plant would be very generous).

    This is what I meant when I said that 8–2 either way was more or less equally amiss. Plant's efforts merit at least a small share of the closer rounds in the fight.