**Saturday Taylor vs. Pavlik: Questions and answers...**

So lighter weight name fighters like Spinks or Wright could get ratings - it doesn't make them legitimate middleweights OR particularly give them punching power at that weight. This is even more the case when you consider that they weren't punchers at the lighter weights either!!atsch Oh, and you might say that Hopkins and Wright are fighters who don't get knocked out, but you SURE can't say that about Cory Spinks!!


And sure Taylor can score knockouts against the usual tomato cans and journeymen. Pavlik, on the other hand, HAS knocked out a rated fighter, and in impressive fashion, too. He will make short work of your HBO hype job, count on it. :yep

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Now you have just demonstrated how utterly ridiculous your perspective on this fight is. Let's see - Hopkins is a puncher, Kelly Pavlik isn't.......:nut

Guess you just started following boxing, huh???

 

From what I've seen, based on his performances, and his speeches, Pavlik is incredibly intelligent.

 

Lacy, a guy that is short, not even in the same league as far as power is concerned, and does NOT throw as many punches as Pavlik and is limited to a one dimensional attack based on the inside is a better prospect?

Okay..........

 

It's really difficult to land cleanly to Pavlik's body. He has unusually long forearms.

I noticed this when he was fighting Zertuche.

 

Doesn't matter, we're talking about prospects and Lacy is limited.

Lacy is an inside fighter, with adequete headmovement, a good chin, UNDERRATED toughness, a decent workrate, with above average power.

Pavlik can box almost as well or just as well as Kessler who only looks good because of the quality of his opposition, not in the same league as Taylor, probably more power than any Supermiddleweight, has a complete aresnal, (can hurt you with either hand and throws in combinations), throws 80 punches a round, and has a great chin.

Not to mention, he's tall and rangy, and very difficult to land cleanly on his body.

So, how is Lacy a better prospect?

Head to head, Pavlik would probably KO Lacy. And I understand Lacy is not in top form, but even a pre-Calzaghe Lacy would likely get Koed.

 

Taylor had a padded record before he fought Hopkins, but he did fight well. Boxing history is full of examples of guys who jumped waaaay up in competition and scored the big win. On the other hand, there are those who don't pass the test.

The issue with Jermain Taylor is HBO, Lou DiBella, and the culture surrounding the superstar. HBO hyped him too much, so when he didn't have good performances, it was only natural for folks to criticize him. Additionally, Lou DiBella made Hopkins - Taylor seem more about DiBella- Hopkins than about his own fighter. It cast a unnecessarily negative light on his fighter. Moreover, people really want an American stand-out star in the sport...someone like Ali, Leonard, etc. When the built-up, would be superstar suddenly appears to be something less, the press nails it to them disproportionately.

On valid criticisms, Taylor did face difficult southpaws in Ouma and Spinks, and truthfully, he didn't fight those guys smart. He was very reactive. He appeared to regress. Not being able to solve those guys is like a hyped baseball player not being able to hit the curve. It happens, but with Spinks and Ouma, let's just say they're not Joe Calzaghe. Neither of those guys is a big puncher, neither is as crafty as Winky Wright either, so why not just rip their body round after round---walk through them--- until they can't take it anymore? He just didn't fight well.

On Hopkins & Wright, I give Taylor a lot of credit. I think Taylor - Wright was the best middleweight fight in years. Great action...regardless of some of Taylor's technical deficiencies. It was a very close fight. I gave Winky a slight edge, but not by much. With Hopkins, what we learned is that Bernard probably should've stepped up to 168 or 175 a little earlier. He was stiffer and slower against Eastman earlier that year than I'd ever seen him, and DiBella and his team saw that it was time to take a shot at the 40-year-old. Both of those fights were very close, and considering that Taylor hadn't really fought anyone who was a major threat, and gave Hopkins all sorts of problems with his speed and his jab, he should be given a lot of respect.

What Taylor faces now in this stage of his career is the biggest puncher he's ever faced. I don't think Pavlik is on a par with someone like Cyclone Hart, or even the middleweight version of Hearns, but he can punch extremely hard with both hands, and is a big threat in that regard.

 

He's gotta keep his elbows tucked in. Taylor is more educated on body work than Zertuche.

 

Yeah, but he's taller too.

Pavlik might be slow in comparison to Taylor, but he ain't that slow.

 

You're right about this. Look at how Pavlik fought McKart, and then look at how he fought Miranda. At first glance, due to McKart's definite lack of power, one would think a puncher like Pavlik would just go to him and rip shots until it was over. Rather, Pavlik mixed up his attack to the body and the head, and wore him down patiently. He knew McKart had an excellent chin, and was very crafty.

With Miranda, he fought super intelligently. Pavlik has better basic boxing skills than Miranda, which at face value would lead one to believe that Pavlik would box him. No....he knew Miranda could not fight well going backwards, so he got him on his heels where Miranda would not be able to generate the kind of leverage we were accustomed to seeing from him, and that kind of attack will also wear a fighter like Miranda down twice as fast.

These are examples of strategy and ring generalship we didn't see from a pure puncher like Lacy.

 

He is. You're correct. It harder to land body shots against a taller fighter, especially if Pavlik decides to hike those trunks up a bit. Hopkins was always a good body puncher, but remember the problems when he fought 6'2" Keith Holmes (who had those trunks way too high). Still, the body attack Taylor might employ is at a different level than others Pavlik has faced.

Taylor does have a speed advantage, as he does against just about anyone. Pavlik is not glacier slow by any stretch of the imagination. He has decent speed. However, Taylor is just the faster guy.

 

Excellent post - you cover the background to why many of us object to Taylor's rise to prominence quite well. There is something wrong with hyped Olympic fighters getting these breaks and advantages, while hard working fighters like Hopkins have to fight the boxing establishment every step of the way, and then have their titles taken as a result of this corruption.

I think the fight with Pavlik will turn more one-sided than you and many others imagine. I really think DiBella has been protecting him since he "won" the title. Wright's a great fighter, yes, but he was fighting above his natural weight - as were Ouma and Spinks. And NONE of them was a heavy-hitter, even at the weight classes they moved up from.

That leads me to believe that DiBella knows something about Taylor's ability to take a punch that we have been, up to now, only able to speculate on. Saturday will indeed provide an answer to this question.

 

I tend to agree with you on the point about Taylor being steered from punchers during his career until this point. What many forget is that Taylor's camp had a choice of facing Miranda or Spinks, and they chose Spinks. With Pavlik the mandatory, all of those questions are now forced to answered.

I'm still on the fence about this fight, however. What I'm really hoping for is what too many in the press haven't mentioned: An incredibly hard fought, ebb and flow, close action fight that goes the distance, where either guy can legitimately be deemed the winner, and creates a rematch at 168 (that's the rematch clause if Pavlik wins). Not a bogus decision, but a close decision many will disagree on.

Nonetheless, I think we're going to see a stoppage either way within 8 rounds. Maybe like a Hagler - Hearns or Matthew Saad Muhammad - Marvin Johnson 2. Some feel this could be like Holmes - Cooney or Hopkins - Trinidad....and if Taylor can box like that, it's possible...although he hasn't shown that lately.

Lots of scenarios.....

I like both Pavlik and Taylor....they're both good people who represent the sport in a positive light. May the best man win.

 

Damn, that's a hell of a good post.

 

Uh, how would Lacy beat Pavlik then, tough guy?

Lacy might be done for all we know, and a guy like that who is FORCED to fight on the inside will be slaughtered by a guy that punches like Pavlik.

Everytime Lacy comes in, who comes relatively mechanically, he'll risk the chance of being hammered by a right hand.

Not only that, but Pavlik would be able to outbox Lacy as well.

So, uh, what are you talking about?