Saul Alvarez vs Herol Graham - who wins?

I don't dispute any of that.

I have a great respect of it.

I have always been fascinated by all aspects of psychology.


Regarding Herol, I really don't think the above applies.

If you watched his career in it's entirety, I don't think your theory holds water.

Herol was an unorthodox fighter and he was Naz's hero. It was just the Ingle style. Roy Jones also fought in a similar manner. I don't think Herol had a mental weakness, he used his style to frustrate and tire his opponents, before countering them. He got caught big by Jackson, but those were his tactics that he chanced. He was desperately unlucky not to have won a title, because he put in great performances against peak versions of Sumbu Kalambay and Mike McCallum, who were 2 elite fighters. There's not a doubt in my mind that Herol wouldn't have been a MW world champ in a different era. Chris Eubank sparred him and said he never wanted to fight him, and Nigel Benn also said he never wanted to fight him. You've also got to note that he had the mental strength in his late 30's, to try one last time to win a world title up at SMW against Charles Brewer. In my honest opinion, you can't draw comparisons to Andrew Golota. He repeatedly landed low blows against Bowe as a way out, and he had a breakdown against Tyson. He was a mentally weak fighter. Whereas there's no evidence to suggest that Herol was one too.

I think there's a few people on here who didn't watch his career unfold, and they're being influenced by his stats/resume.

There's no doubting the fact that he was a world class fighter.

 

Actually, I am not in any position to fully evaluate this athlete's psychological condition based on a statement that the boxer always manages to find a way to lose. I merely provided a possibility which might or might not apply based on a statement of a possible fact. I should have done more research on this fighter before commenting. My apologies.

So you are right, the reason for his seeming bad luck at crucial moments despite his being a good fighter at other times if true, might not be based on fear of success but merely be a consequence of his boxing style.

 

No need for apologies, and again, I'm sorry for my previous comment that came across as being disrespectful.

You have brought something very thought provoking to the debate, and I think that the majority of boxing fans don't realise just how much psychology plays in the outcome of a fight.

It's great to debate with someone who's intelligent.

There's too many trolls on here.

 

Graham was a beautifully elusive boxer and run circles around Canelo. But as mentioned before he always fell short in the big fight and I suspect he'll get caught while a mile ahead on the scorecards and get stopped.

 

Haha haha old carrot top gets cut to ribbons and stopped mid rnds .Total mismatch.

 

Alvarez shatters that glass jaw, just like Julian Jackson did.

 

Alvarez catches Graham sooner or later - I think he would force a stoppage.

 

Calzaghe fought old men or overrated guys like kessler and lacey...no fighter has been overrated like zaghe .he got a gift v hopkins and was floored by a shot jones.

Graham fought kalambay,mccallum and toney in four v close tough fights....apart from hopkins who he robbed....calzaghe never foughtva single opponent of that calibre. Graham beats calzaghe snd alvarez on points

 

I agree with you in that Joe never fought guys the calibre of Mike McCallum.

Herol didn't fight Toney, you're mistaken.

Although Herol was a world class MW, I don't think he'd have beaten Joe. I think that may have been a step too far. Joe was a very big SMW, coming down from around 190 pounds.

 

Agreed.

 

Graham would box circles around him.

 

Whoops meant to say julian jackson not toney....nice post by u....also hell people forget calzaghe wouldnt fight glen johnson....calzaghes career was a disapointment pre lacey....now its overrated by the jones win and hopkins robbery...
And every brit online thinks the superior froch loses to him

 

Some would convincingly argue grahams peak was 1984-86.....watching him fight at the time he just looked a very imposing fighter....a winner....i saw him right up to 36-0....in retrospect in that era u do look at his record and the names dont seem that impressive now as they were at the time (lindell holmes,mark kaylor,ayub kalule,sanderline williams) but in general 1984-86 with hagler having the division in total lockdown and outside of the fab four cameo appearences...the "contenders" of this time (kinchen,shuler,dewitt,roldan,don lee,mugabe,sibson) were overall not as impressive as the 1987-1991 contenders in a more strength in depth wide open division (nunn,kalambay,mccallum,toney,benn,barkley,jackson,johnson,olajide,watson,collins)...thats why a lot of the earlier crop of mid 80s mws and lmw"s like Lee,DeWitt,and kinchen fell away in the mix with the later crop of the late 80s even though they were still in their prime.......it would be put forward by some that herol graham was such a guy too who fell away from undefeated no 1 contender in 1986 to marvin hagler to a guy with 3 defeats by 1990.....but than u look at the manner of defeat and u look at how classy and dominating a boxer this guy was and u realise probably never since has a boxers finest of margins between victory and loss been so thin as with this guy probably the unluckiest fighter ive ever seen.

He takes on the unknown veteran kalambay who suddenly goes on a purple patch.the night before the fight graham is rang by a mr x who tells him his girlfriend is cheating...graham goes in a mess and loses.....he dominates mccallum in spurts ,fights dead even all night,and than pisses away the title by losing a point due to a throw......jackson he is making look like a boy to his man...he is man handling him.....than the never floored rarely hit graham is knocked unconscious.....sure jackson like kalambay was a far superior boxer than thought and it was a brilliant planned knockout.....but jeez graham could box brilliantly...he was so avoided....he would have beaten your benns,eubanks,watsons in this period....as well as kinchen,roldan ,etc......graham has the style perfect to beat canelo.....the speed and boxing ability and movement and hed handle canelos punch if need be

 

Graham would beat the crap out of Canelo.
Hell if Canelo had problems with Lara Graham is a whole different level.
Graham had a good chin. Jackson is one of the greatest punchers EVER Canelo can't even come close to Jacksons power.
Who has Canelo beaten? Mayweather embarrassed him. I thought Lara beat him.
Graham breat Holmes who latter became a champion. He beat Kalambay the second time only to get robbed. He beat Kalue.
Kaylor.

 

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