Savannah "The Gypsy Queen" Marshall vs Claressa "T-Rex" Shields - Who you got?

She has been calling for Marshall for ages so please get your facts right! She signed with Skysports for the Marshall. They both fight on the same bill in December then fight against each other in the New Year. If you think Shields opposition has been weak then please do a forensic examination of Marshall’s who has been fighting fighters with losing records.

 

Both Marshall and Shields spar with male boxers. Marshall has said that she is fully aware they are holding back their full power, Shields on the other hand from her words seems to think she's taking the full power of some top males. Does she really believe that (in which case she's delusional) or is it just playful banter? If she truly believes this then you can see why she might think she could beat some decent male boxers and also that Marshall's power can't be more than what she's faced in sparring and is nothing to be concerned about. And Marshall's shots only look heavy because of weak opponents. If so I think she's in for a rude awakening.

 

I agree Shields opponents which includes several world champions are far superior to Marshall’s opponents. That is just a fact.

 

Shields is renowned for being feather fisted,Marshall can bang

 

Keep blowing smoke up Marshalls ass.

 

Ha mate we could go on forever, I don’t agree with hardly anything you say. I’m quite far from your viewpoint, and I know it’s vice versa for yourself. I could argue every point of how and why I feel that way but it’s be a waste of time.

On “the concession of my role” whatever that means (sorry I’m a simple man at times), and the “training them to box and entering them into a prize ring are different matters”, who are you to decide if the young woman should enter into the “prize ring”? Who are you to tell the likes of Taylor, shields and Marshall they should only be learning to box not actually fighting? You say on one hand you don’t mind women boxing as long as it’s on all women shows (though I don’t know were you think this leaves amateur boxing? Or if you find women taking pet in that wrong?), but then everything else you say says you absolutely abhor the very notion of them boxing. This is what I meant when I said if we all had your belief we wouldn’t give these young women the time of day, the women who want to fight, there’s no way we would give the young women a fair crack of the whip and the same level of attention if we thought like you.

We could argue all day the exact ins and outs of how Katie Taylor has to be passed off as a boy (I doubt either of us know the exact blow by blow story) but one fact is that she did it because girls were banned from competing in amateur boxing, a socially engineered decision largely by the influence of men.

I’ve gotten into this more than I could initially be arsed, again you sucked me in ha! It’s not that I’m misunderstanding you etc I just don’t think like you on this issue.

Bring on Marshall v shields!

 

Savannah was a fantastic amateur too, World Championship Gold medalist. This is the pros. Savannah punches far harder than Shields and has adapted to the pros better.

You were as certain as Joshua beating Usyk, and look what happened there. You let your fanboyism ruin your predictions.

Why aren't you supporting your fellow Brit?

 

I see that you have rearranged my words and obfuscated their meaning, Jim.

But I was saying, given your stated role in coaching girls, I can understand how it would be difficult for you to bring yourself to concede a certain point (i.e. that the amount of televised womens' pro boxing we've seen lately has more to do with a social engineering drive than audience demand). Many people struggle to reconcile thoughts/ideas that might appear to be conflicting at a superficial glance, even if those thoughts/ideas actually aren't all that irreconcilable when you scratch the surface (as I said, teaching a woman to box and encouraging her to box for a living are different things).

Where did I grant myself that authority? I was calling upon the social responsibility of the people charged with educating and guiding these girls, i.e. their coaches. I do find it mystifying that anyone would encourage a young woman to enter a profession where her earning potential is so limited and her potential to incur lasting damage (emotional as well as physical) so high. Would you encourage your own daughter to box professionally? Actually, don't answer that.

The market will always be the ultimate authority when it comes to determining what the women are worth, Jim. If the authentic demand isn't there, the money won't be.

I haven't used this thread to dwell on my ethical reservations re. women's professional boxing, and there's a reason for that. Any ethical objection I may hold re. womens' pro boxing is irrelevant, because we live in a (somewhat) free world wherein it is legal for women to box pro. That doesn't mean they should, however (see previous paragraph). It's legal for a person to do any number of things that aren't really good for them.

I suggested that womens' bouts be televised in female-only slots so that we may see what they are really worth in the marketplace. Why should anyone who champions the womens' sport be so afraid of that idea? If womens' pro boxing is such a rising, unstoppable tide, backed by waves of bonafide public interest, there's nothing to worry about. Viewing figures and attendances would surely be very positive, no? We might even see a #girlytakeover.

You're not making a lot of sense with this. I've observed a clear distinction between teaching women to box and guiding them into the pro ring. If "give these women the time of day" is code for attempting to create an economic opportunity for oneself, then I could more clearly see where you're coming from. But creating economic opportunity for oneself should never be the sole purpose of a coach, as I stated here;

Who's arguing about that? I'm going directly by Taylor's own account of the situation.

Taylor didn't put on gloves until age 12 (1998) — maybe she was inspired by Sporty Spice, or the girls in B*Witched? — by which time I'm pretty sure that bans on females competing in amateur boxing had already been lifted in the UK and Ireland (I think that was '96). If you know otherwise, please provide a source. I was a couple years younger than Katie was back then.

My last post included very clear formal definitions of what the term 'social engineering' actually means. What you mean by 'social engineering' is more like patriarchal repression, which is something altogether different and which I've just pointed out was a non-factor by the time KT first put on gloves, if it ever was a factor at all (that's another debate).

Well, you can't say I didn't give you the chance to agree to disagree.

 

Ha mate I’m no where near the level of coaching pros! I’m just doing my quals and coaching novice amateurs! I’ll never have an economic opportunity for “oneself” through boxing.

I’m not sure whether I’d encourage a son or daughter to enter the pros tbh, it’s a brutal game. If they wanted to box amateur I’d encourage them yes. Forget the pros for a minute though, no I don’t even think anyone would give women the time of day in the amateurs even if they thought like yourself (I.e. entering actual fights in amateurs). what I want for my daughter is for her to be able to do whatever she has a passion for, and if that’s a traditionally male dominated sport I wouldn’t want her to listen to people telling them they shouldn’t be doing it. Just

You keep going on about how boxing is bad for women, let’s be honest it’s bad for men, many come out of the game less of a person physically than when they entered. It’s no different for them.

There is less demand there to see women’s boxing I understand that, there’s less demand for a lot of women’s sports, and there probably always will be, but I just feel that one aspect of this lower demand is that there opportunities have been blocked for a long time by patriarchal influences/forces and these have ingrained the prejudices into both men and women. I can’t say I watch women’s football, but there was an actual van on it for fifty years. Whatever the dates/ins and outs of the Irish women’s amateur boxing, it was actually banned from taking place until 20yrs ago or so, these things have a massive effect on how many women would take a sport up or even try it. If your being told from the top this isn’t for you (and people like yourself are also saying this) then you would believe it and not take part wouldn’t you. It’s not a surprise that the floodgates of women boxing didn’t open straight away.

Ha I have tried to agree to disagree but maybe we are misunderstanding each other slightly as well.

 

I expected AJ to win but also knew Usyk was the better boxer. What I did not anticipate was AJ’s strategy of getting into a boxing match with the mobile sleek skillful southpaw. Then again I don’t rate Robert McCracken. The facts are Shields has defeated a far superior level of competition to Marshall and when they fight you will see the difference in levels.

 

Its no different to how you talk about Shields though?

 

Maybe but Shields is proven the Jury is very much out on Marshall who requires proper genuine tests against people who can win.

 

Well thats coming as long as Shields recovers from this week