Say Pavlik Beats Calzaghe, Is He Your #1 P4P?

How it works from my understanding is that a P4P list is a list of the fighters that you believe to be the best P4P in the world.

If Taylor was actually one of the best ten pound 4 pound fighters in the World, then he probably wouldn't have lost two fights, one by knockout. The fact that he did so caused people to reassess their previous rankings and adjust Taylor downwards, correcting for their previous over optomistic ranking. If he was actually one of the best ten pound 4 pound fighters in the world, he'd still be there, two defeats or not. Unless he'd actually declined, and I've yet to see anyone actually make that argument.

 

So you are saying that he has declined and is no longer as good as he once was?

 

I am braindead today delete

 

Boxing isn't just about technical ability. In my opinion, the only way to rate a fighter is how they do against other opposition. Floyd Mayweather Jr fans think a lot like you do. Just because he has the ability, doesn't make him the best fighter in the world. He needs to prove it, under the pressure, and against a fighter who may have more will, determination, and courage than himself.

I rate fighters on how they compete with their competition. Manny Pacquiao drew and defeated Juan Manuel Marquez. But because I had Marquez winning both fighters unofficially, I rate him higher than Pacquiao. It isn't complicated. Because you have the tools to win, doesn't garuntee victory. History has shown that.

Douglas knocked out Tyson. Everybody knows Douglas was never as good as Tyson, but he held the title regardless.

 

I still believe Jermain Taylor has all the tools to defeat Pavlik, but the fact is that he didn't beat Pavlik. That's all that matters.

 

NO! You are saying that.

Other fighters around him are performing better than he is at the moment. That is why he isn't in the top 10. He could be in the top 20 or 30, but not he top 10 because other fighters have shown more consistancy. Taylor was a great fighter, still is a great fighter. End of discussion!

 

What on Earth are you talking about?

Look it's very simple, a P4P ranking isn't some league system. It's a ranking of who you believe to be the best fighters in the World.

If you have a guy ranked 8th, and then after he has three more fights you have him ranked 18th (for example), then there are two options. Either he declined fairly significantly in that time period, or the additional evidence caused you to realise that the initial rating was too high and to adjust it downwards.

 

atsch

....no....

(can somebody please try and explain to this man why a fighter can no longer be considered for top 10 after losing two fights in a row) PLEASEEEE!!! I'm about to have a heart attack.

 

I understand that you consider a P4P to be a kind of league system, whereas I consider it to be a ranking of the best fighters in the world.

It is entirely logically possible for someone to have two defeats in a row and still be in the top ten P4P. The same way a lot of people still consider Rafael Marquez the number two at super bantamweight despite losing twice to Vasquez.

 

My man, the "problem" here is the fact that Taylor is the fighter/subject at hand. Lots of people say they always viewed him as crap:deal, and seeing as how Pavlik's victories give them ammo, it's the point he keeps trying to pin you with.

 

Um, no I always considered him high teens P4P. That's hardly crap.

After his wins against Hopkins a lot of people had him in the top ten. After his defeats to Pavlik, a lot of those same people moved him down to.....high teens.

Unless Taylor went downhill in that time, all that proves is that my initial rating seems a more accurate reflection of his actual ability.

 

OK, now do Winky. He was about # 4 this time last year. Has his skills eroded, or has something else happened?

 

Good post.

I don't see why so many people hate Pavlik. Is he the most athletically gifted guy? No, but he comes to fight, displays underrated technical skill, and is willing to take a few to give a few. Plus, I think he's one of those guys who would have no objection to facing the best of the best. He's good for boxing and also one of my five favorite current fighters.