School me on Dariusz Michalczewski ...

They are of course entitled to that view, but pretty garbage IMO. Jones had his only second fight at LHW only the day before Maske-Hill.

Not disputing that Jones was better. And that he likely would have won. I think he would win anywhere against DM.

Now, that doping case of Jones I really need to look into. Always thought that was pretty straight forward that he did something wrong. Now im not so sure.

Doping use is something that damages the standing of sportsmen IMO.

 

but he was the number 1 smw (not the lineal claimant but that's all bull**** anyways) and the number 1 p4p, once he'd fought in the division it's no wonder they decided to hold off crowning a new king until jones had fought them.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, that's all the lineal title is. opinion. there's no organisation to control, sanction nor enforce it.

I personally think dm was the best man in the divison until about 99 when jones overtook with him with better opposition and better performances.

 

Jones scored his p4p #1 status fighting below LHW, this status should
have no meaning to decide his status at LHW. It happened thou that media
(Ring/HBO) ANNOUNCED him to be best at LHW, he did not prove this in the ring.

The status means who was the real man at the division and who was not.
If we assume that Hill-Maske-DM were the right fighters to reinstall lineage
then DM was the rightful champion in the first place.

It means further that Jones could not be a rightful champion until he beat
DM, and his titles had no meaning, his #1 p4p status does not apply, his
Ring belt was AWARDED to him by ignoring everything which happened
in the division before 1998 (which was officially later confirmed by RIng).

 

Europe is a big ****ing place stop grouping us all together you ignorant yank, like me, an irishman is going to big up a pole because we're both from the same continent?

 

what does "the man" even mean?

As I said in my first post in this thread, DM was the the man who'd beaten the man and the lineal champ, but it's just a status on paper.

DM was not the best LHW in the world and that's what Im more interested in.

Lineage is a not a determination of who the premiere fighter in any division is.

This is a top example, another is briggs at hw; serrano at sfw; daisuke naito at flw; casamayor at lw; pender at mw and I could go on and on and on.

The thread question is asking about DM. He was a solid fighter and the lineal claimant. His status as champion is reduced to paper only because no time after 99 was he the best lhw in the world. He will not be remembered as a great LHW because his opponenets and performances were not the best in the division whilst he was there.

I do not think anyone in their right mind would claim DM was a greater LHW than Jones and anyone who did wouldn't be worth me wasting my time on tbh.

 

who the fuk thinks Dariusz is greater than RJJ other than Europeans?

 

Never seeing it that way :think

Still, I disagree. Think its a bit harsh on guys who had shown their worth in the division for years, then to be blocked just because some guy moves up just before their head-to-head fight.

And yes, this lineal-thing isnt sanctioned or always good. Case in point is Foreman lineal-reign. Which he should have lost to Schulz, then gets robbed of against Briggs. While Holyfield was the real top dog.

Agree about Jones doing it better from 99/00ish. Also wrote that I see Jones as the better fighter and big time favorite had they fought.

 

As I say, I think Hill v Maske was the top 2 in the division fighting each other. I think we agree on that.

holy stopping Tyson x 2 and MM was miles better than Foreman and Briggs, think we agree on that.

Jones was better from 99 and would have been a big favourite, think we agree on that.

In short I think we're actually in complete agreement on everything here :good

 

I could have sworn you were polish yikesyikes

 

True.

 

Man you are really angry.

You could of at least said, -wHo the fuk thinks Darius is greater than RJJ other than Poles.

 

No: lineage is determination of the best in the division, not the best p4p.
Floyd will not be considered the best MW by beating some top 20 contender
even if he is p4p #1.

Neither FLoyd or PAC will be considered best SMW by beating
for example Abraham at the SMW division limit ... or beating eachother
at the 160.5 lb catchweight.

"DM was the the man who'd beaten the man and the lineal champ, but it's just a status on paper"

no: at the time when he beat the man, he was simply the man, that
is the definition. You cannot become man by ignoring the man and
claiming you are the best because you beat some other irrelevant boxers
and you are fighting in very popular TV station ... that is fraud.

 

WTF has nationality here ... are you loosing arguments?
DM was German at that time more than Pole.

 

how much boxing history have you really researched?

Do you think Shannon Briggs was the best HW in the world when he got a gift against foreman?

Do you think Michael Spinks was the best HW in the world when he got a gift against Holmes in the rematch?

Do you think Jack Jonson was the best HW in the world when he was taking vacations letting the top 5 contenders all fight each other?

Do you think Naito was the best FLW in the wolrd when Donaire was sparking Darch with one punch?

Lineage absolutely does not determine who the best in the wolrd is. It's a way of tracing a line of successions and it's relevance stops there.

I tell you what, answer this question and that'll determine whether I need to spend time educating you or not:

Who is the greater LHW? Jones or DM?

 

What're you on about?

I said I thought KopeJH was polish. The name sounds very polish to me.