School me !! on Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Feb 11, 2020.


  1. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    I have a confession i do not think highly of Sonny Liston as most do here i think Sonny Liston is Overated in fact i think he is vastly overated i do not think at all Sonny Liston is as powerful as Foreman, Mike Tyson ,Shavers heck i think maybe even wilder might be more powerful than he is .

    i always see fans having liston in their top 10 head to head . Sorry i just dont see it at all. Im gonna go over some sonny liston fights right now to see if im missing anything maybe i could be wrong .

    However feel free to school on why sonny liston is an all time great. I do not hate the man at all . So do not say im a hater as i do not even know Liston personally . Just i always felt he is overated vastly overated by many fans across all of boxing .

    Any schooling me is welcome . I just want to see why sonny liston is so great



    All opinions are welcome i am open to learn
     
  2. surfinghb1

    surfinghb1 Member Full Member

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    Well … He was well polished in overall boxing skill. Prime in '59 '60 … One of the best jabs of all time, powerful. Power in both gloves with a vicious hook. Probably the most intimidating boxer of all time. He started boxing around age 20 and got his title shot late... He made short work of Patterson twice and Williams twice which he doesn't receive enough credit for.. He is a H2H monster imo .. You are not alone as some here feel the same as you that he is over ratted.. But with Almost every boxer there is that element. People start picking apart Liston at age 34 and 35 when he faced Ali and after that on into his late 30's.. Liston was 11 years older than Ali and Ali was an Athletic freak of nature starting to come into his Prime. Hell it's Ali we are talking about...Well if someone starts picking apart a boxer when he is 35 years old, doesn't that tell you how good he really was?
     
  3. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    you right im probably underating him maybe and judging him off the loss to ali who is great himself
     
  4. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Active Member Full Member

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    I think there’s a reason Liston was so feared and revered. His prime was also before he won the title were he beat a pretty good pool of heavyweights and in dominant fashion. I think the nature of the Patterson fights cause them to be underrated. Patterson did some excellent things after he got destroyed twice by Liston.

    Head to head is all speculation and I am not a particularly huge fan of it especially with different eras but I’ve often thought there’s not many guys I’d pick to beat Sonny at his best. Ali? Sure. I think he’d be a bit of a nightmare for Frazier and could take him out in a firefight. He’d stick around long enough to take Foreman out. Holyfield is in trouble against him as is Lewis. I think Holmes probably would be ever so slightly favored and you’ve generally got to give Louis the benefit of the doubt in most cases but I think I like him against all but that trio.

    As far as his all-time heavyweight ranking? I think I have him around 8 or 9 so I think his career is probably lesser than what I perceive his talent level to be.
     
  5. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    i know what you mean though i just feel its hypocritical at times when you compare a modern fighter to a classic fighter in terms of head to head

    and you hear comments such as
    " let me know when he clears out the division "

    or

    " how many titles defenses does he have "

    or

    "who has he beaten "

    especially today when joshua got knocked out by ruiz and call him a glass chin

    but then you have liston who made only one title defence , got knocked out twice by ali who is a decent puncher but isnt a big puncher .and liston did not even clear the division nor did he face heavy hitters nor did he have a long reign.

    basically i feel fans are hypocritical when it comes to liston so much hype , and many many excuses
     
  6. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Active Member Full Member

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    With 5 titles today and 5 champions you could argue one defense is the equivalent of 5 and beating one champion is the equivalent of 5.

    Sometimes a lot of solid work is done in pre title reign in past eras too especially the one belt era. ****, there’s guys like Charley Burley or Sam Langford with all-time legendary talent and resumes who didn’t even get a title. Is Gary Russell a better Featherweight than Jose Legra because he made more defenses?
     
  7. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    depends on who you ask , i guess that logic should not matter then when it comes to head to head the title defenses argument.
     
  8. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    but yes i get your point at that time there was not many alphabet belts like today so true
     
  9. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict booted Full Member

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    Liston was an ass kicking monster.
     
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  10. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great fighter. Mob controlled, which people tend to ignore entirely unless they're focusing on the Ali fights. People tend to ignore the mob's influence on the sport in the classic era as a matter of convenience on here unless it's regarding very specific fights and fighters.

    Personally I think it's too good a business for the mafia not to have rigged certain outcomes on the way up as well on the way down, as it'd have been extremely easy to do with someone who could fight and punch like Sonny could. Nobody would question it if a guy people figured Sonny would knock out anyways fell in the 3rd or 8th round.
     
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  11. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    you think ali liston was rigged ?
     
  12. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I have no idea what to think lol. I lean towards no on the first and yes (in some fashion) on the rematch, but I don't think we'll ever know for sure 100%.
     
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  13. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    man i saw the video ...the first one that does not look real especially since ali went longer with patterson
     
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  14. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    With wins over Dejohn, Williams x2, Nino, Machen, Harris, Folley, Floyd x2, Clark, Rischer, Wepner, whitehurst, Bethea and more his record is impressive. Especially considering the time it took him to KO his victims. I don’t think anyone did it quicker against very good opposition. His opponents were on the smaller side so there is that “knock” against him. But he was able to KO all kinds of opponents from slick boxers to sluggers like Williams.
    He was Tyson before Tyson. I know people think he “only had one defense” “mob owned” but that demeans his accomplishments. Idk what fights can be proved were “mob controlled fixes” if someone knows please state which ones if any. One of the strongest fighters to ever lace them up with one of the best jabs to boot. A H2H monster in his prime.
     
  15. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think Liston's jab is only behind Ali and Holmes' in the heavyweight division. It wasn't as vicious as Larry's, and not quite as powerful as Foreman's (and nowhere near as fast as Ali's). But it was still a sick bludgeon of mammoth proportions.

    His jab is the thing I most want to watch when I watch his fights. He had such a good reach and huge hands. Like Holmes, Liston's jab most obviously discouraged a good deal of his victims early on. They must have thought "omg if this is his jab then I'm gonna get poopy poked".
     
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