Scoring aggression in boxing...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TinFoilHat, Feb 22, 2017.



  1. TinFoilHat

    TinFoilHat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know a lot of people value stick and move more than the come forward take one to give two type of fighters. I personally find a skilled technician more enjoyable to watch but I believe that at some point you have to give credit to the guy who PRESSES the action.

    If I believe that two fighters have inflicted a similar amount of damage on each other during a round (within 20%) I typically think the round should go to the aggressor. I refer to this rule even more often whenever I am watching counter-puncher versus counter-puncher. As if neither of them pressed the action there would literally be no fight. None.

    Also, I think people often mistake running as being "skilled". I think too many people think it takes a large amount of skill to move away from punches, it really is not hard at all. Almost anyone with a few years training can survive against a much more skilled opponent if his only goal is to not be KO'd. You often times need an opponent with some forward motion and willingness to engage in order to KO them. Only great KO artists are able to KO people who are 100% trying to survive. It's not hard to take a step back everytime your opponent feints or comes within your range, that is not skill. Skill is being able to stand close to the opponent and move out when he punches and move in at the right time to counter.

    What are you guys thoughts on scoring rounds for a counter-puncher vs the aggressor?
     
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  2. mafioso

    mafioso Well-Known Member Full Member

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    take one to give two...more like take 2 to give 1 ;)
     
  3. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    That Usain Bolt is one hell of a boxer.
     
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  4. Selina

    Selina Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Very good post and interesting subject. Unfortunately, this is so complex matter that we would need to write a book for every layers and factor that should be considered when accessing fighters styles. Plus ESB is full of trolls and messed up intellectuals who will terrorize these kinds of threads.

    Aggressive fighters are very difficult to judge sometimes because they do so many small things that eye doesn´t see of fan can´t read. Good example is Golovkin who is so technically gifted that it´s hard to see all the things that he does in the ring. Of course people tend to learn, but still, there are people who don´t get it even they would compare GGG vs. Monroe jr. and Rosado vs. Monroe jr.

    I think there are some clear examples of "runners" instead of defensive fighters, but the to me the most troublesome aspect is to score rounds that include defensive success (20%) and a lot of running or just basic negativity (80%). Some fighters tend to win points by countering just small proportion of the round successfully, for example Dirrell vs. Froch, Mayweather vs. Castillo 1 etc.

    Of course there are some exceptions a la Lara vs. Canelo..


     
  5. TinFoilHat

    TinFoilHat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ha yeah I guess this is over a lot of ESB's head, as they only come here to wine about the drama in boxing.

    See, I don't think those little things you talk about that most people don't notice really matter. They only matter if they lead to the fighter creating openings and landing punches. The first thing I look at, first and foremost is who did more damage. Let's face it, thats boxing. If the damage is similar I'll start thinking about the number of punches landed and then who was more aggressive. It's not common where all things are equal enough to have to go beyond aggression. After that you can grade on things like defense etc. But I think that in general some people on here think you can give a round to a guy because he made the other guy miss a lot lol. If you learn how to box properly, you will see if you are fighting in a style in which you don't have a constant ying and yang of offense defense, it is EASY to make a man miss. I'm saying if you fight in a way where you are thinking "ok I'm on offense" you go in and drop some combinations, then move out and think "im on defense". This is a really amateur like style, and it isn't as effective. When you are trying to do nothing but make the opponent miss you can just stand slightly outside their range and as soon as you feel the other fighter about to come in you can step off. Seriously anyone with a few months of boxing training can do that. What takes skill is landing punches back as they are being thrown at you. It takes skill to be close enough to get hit, make them miss, then hit them with your shot. Defense isn't worth anything unless it is causing you to do more damage to the other guy.
     
  6. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It takes a lot more skill and balls to walk into the fire whilst trying to land your own, than run away from it. That's why aggression should be given automatic points and if the round is even, then round goes to the aggressor.

    If both decide to backup waiting to counterpunch, there literally is no fight. So why would you credit the guy who initiated the action? This rule also makes for less boring fights and how it used to be scored back in the days.
     
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  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree with the OP. I rate aggression over defence in the boxing ring.

    If a round is even, it should go to the guy making the fight.

    Otherwise every fight would be Wlad / Tyson Fury.
     
  8. nickpoppunk

    nickpoppunk Unbelievable Bentekkers Full Member

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    perfect example of floyd vs maidana 1.

    half the fans enjoyed the technician in floyd and gave him extra rounds because of this.
    half the fans enjoyed the come forward aggression of maidana and gave him the extra rounds.

    great fight from 2 different angles
     
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  9. TinFoilHat

    TinFoilHat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Exactly, when there is two counter punchers, one of them HAS to play the initiator. That guy who presses the action should be given the round if it is close in amount of damage done.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good thing they have a rulebook that tells how to score a fight.

    Effective aggression is a key component of scoring.

    The word that matters there is effective.
     
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  11. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    Has to be EFFECTIVE aggression. In those nothing rounds pure aggression definitely tends to tip things though.
     
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  12. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Define what you mean by effective aggression? Because for most people that just means winning the round or not. If you're aggressive and win the round, then you won the round no need to attach aggression to it.

    The philosophy is simple, if 2 counterpunches decide not to initiate, there is no fight. Simple. The fighter that decides to initiate for the fans sake gives up his luxury of being able to wait in his comfort zone therefore he should be given the benefit of the doubt for taking the risk.

    Let's take serving/not serving in tennis. The person who serves statically has the edge. If a player was forced to be a receiver every round instead of server, he would statistically be at disadvantage. Thankfully in tennis, a round is much more definitive and they have ways to force someone to be a server one round, and a receiver the next. In boxing you can't make someone an aggressor one round and a runner the next. For this very reason, the benefit of the doubt should go to the person initiating, creating a fight and often times taking the risk.

    The aggressor takes the risk, its pure science. If a and b is separated by distance creating a safe zone, the fighter who leaves the safe zone and enters the fire has taken the risk. All things being equal, why shouldn't they be given the benefit of doubt?
     
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  13. pincai

    pincai The Indonesian Thin Man Full Member

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    Clean punching is criteria no1. And I personally award punches that did damage more. In other words, who would you rather be in that round is the winner. In my book, if you land a hook that shook your opponent counts more than 3 soft jabs that he landed. Well it's my criteria anyway, feel free to disagree.

    The others like effective aggression, ring generalship and defence are very subjective.
    Example, an agressor only manage to land 2 punches moving forward the whole round, the backpedal manage to land 2 punches moving away the entire round. Just for argument sack, those 4 punches are of the same strength. How do you award the round?
    A might say, the aggressor is effective cause he makes the other guy backpedal and forget to punch.
    B might say, the defense is great as he make the aggressor missed, so it was ineffective aggression.
    Both can claim being a ring general.
    OP makes a good point that in this scenario he favours the aggressor. I also incline to give the round to the aggressor.
     
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  14. toxedo911

    toxedo911 Member Full Member

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    Great thread , learnt a lot
     
  15. PrinceNaseemHamed

    PrinceNaseemHamed Walk Like A Champion Full Member

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    It has to be effective aggression with punches landing clean. The fighter that consistently lands the cleaner punches always gets the round for me regardless of style.
     
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