Scott Ledoux's title shot at Larry Holmes

There was better fighters but the wrong system was in place. Larry wanted to fight every three months or so and these "better fighters" (often just prospects) were fighting once a year and had "mandatory" defences because the idiot WBA made up a championship out of nothing.

If Ali (the last undisputed champion) was making a comeback why is a Weaver rematch a bigger fight for Holmes? Why was weaver out of the ring so long? Why didn't Weaver take his #1 C00ney? What made Page a contender to Coetzee? Or Tubbs a contender to Page? Bonecrusher was seen as a soft challenger to Holmes but Tubbs gets a shot out of beating him? Page was on a losing streak when he challenged Coetzee! Why didn't Thomas rematch Coetzee? What made Berbick a top contender to Thomas?

 

Jesus H.

 

choke. classic meandering.

 

What's wrong with that? Holmes was the champion with two fights on the table. Greg was not that great and the money was not great. Greg was not Lennox Lewis was he? Lewis was given "step aside money" at one point. Page had no signature win that made him this Harry Wills kind of guy.

 

This is true. Holmes avoided Page like the plague, which in hindsight is kinda odd. Holmes stated that he was not offered enough money to fight Page, the old "risk vs reward" scenrio. Holmes had no noble intentions in dropping the WBC belt to unify.

 

Let me clarify this for you, this "in fact" is true.

ABC showed the interview Cosell did with LeDoux prior to the fight, and Scott explained his wife's condition.

 

First, I usually agree with the post you make, but in this case I think post is exceedingly harsh of LeDoux. LeDoux's people were the ones playing the part of the fool.

LeDoux was a good guy, who tried his best with what skills he had.

 

LeDoux was a fan favorite during the late 70's early 80's but at the same time a limited but very game lower skilled fighter.

Holmes SHOULD NOT be disparaged by fighting him as all hwts fight easy marks and this was an easy mark.

As with most historical issues it is not a simple answer as to why an event did not did not occur. In terms of Holmes not fighting more deserving contenders it was a composite that led to fights not happening:

1. Huge divide as never before between sactioning bodies. Each had their own contenders and champions. In my lifetime I never saw this great a divide.

2. Holmes not being offered what he wanted as a purse to fight these opponents. Similar to Johnson not getting what he wanted to fight Langford.

3. Holmes since he could not get his asking price to fight the best taking easy marks for less.

 

If Holmes hung around waiting for the cash he wanted or only fought the better guys when these fights could happen he would have defended the title no more times than Dempsey did.

His only defences would have been: 1979, Shavers, 1980 Ali, 1981 Spinks, 1982 ****ey, 1983 Page, 1984 (coetzee fell though) 1985 Bey. And that's it!!!

Not only would encounters with good fighters like Weaver, Berbick, Snipes, Witherspoon, Smith and Williams never have happened, but politics still never would have allowed fights with Coetzee,Tate, Tubbs or Dokes and possibly Thomas ever happening.

Tate blew his voluntary. Dokes was tied to a Weaver rematch and Weaver was ludicrously forced to fight Tillis rather than C00ney as well as Coetzee. Taking only the important fights its hard to imagine how Witherspoon, Berbick or Thomas get a belt.

Tubbs was nobody. In real terms he was never higher than ring magazine #9 before challenging Page. Greg was an afterthought, accidental challenger to Coetzee at best. Would Smith have been a big enough name to challenge Witherspoon without fighting Holmes?

If Holmes fought Page there would have been no Witherspoon v Page so Thomas is in the dark waiting his turn to challenge somebody, as is Witherspoon who not only did not get Larry first time around or fight Page but would have to rely upon Page getting a shot at Coetzee in order to lose to Tubbs who Tim beat.

Perhaps Thomas could have challenge Page?

The reality is it is just as well Larry fought so many easy fights.

 

You should be a fairytale writer Chok.

 

Can you dispute it though?

How many times do you think Larry would have fought from 1978 until 1985 if he only fought when the fights you think he should have had could have been made?

If he only fought #1 guys do you even think Berbick, Snipes, Weaver, Witherspoon, Bey, Smith or Williams would have got title shots when they did?

If the alternative WBA and WBC champions only fought #1 contenders would Weaver, Page, Smith or Tubbs have even become "champion" and therefore #1 to Larry?

I will be very interested in a time line for when these bigger fights could have happened.

Rather than the guys who beat them, please include who Tate, Coetzee, Witherspoon (as WBA champ) Thomas and Page should have really been defending against if they only fought #1 contenders?

Let's see who is telling the fairy stories.

 

You are.

You now make out we are saying Holmes should have fought nothing but number 1 contenders. You are either lying, trolling or have zero reading comprehension.

Nobody said Holmes should have had umpteen extra fights against number 1 contenders or any such shyte. No-one is saying he should have fought every good fighter or WBA titleist either, stop talking out of your backside.

If Holmes fought just Page and Thomas (somewhere among all the underdogs, fledglings and also rans) his latter career would have been so well rounded.

If he could have added one more name, well you've got one helluva career there then.

The Page time line is simple, he just had to actually fight Page one of the two times he signed the contract to. It's so stupidly simple.

Instead he raced off and fought Frank, and the Frazier. Page had to have been one of these two fights, and was supposed to.

As for Thomas, they should have fought instead of the Spinks fight. He could have fought the one guy the people thought had a decent chance at beating him, marking the equalinging of Marciano's record pretty special. Don't tell me he couldn't, Spinks hadn't even had a fight at Heavyweight!

He could have went the fight he thought would be easy, against Spinks to set the new record. That's assuming he beat Thomas.

If he threw in a rematch with a Weaver or Witherspoon in there as well it would have been one helluva career. Just Page and Thomas would have moved him up a spot or two in my 10, and i have him quite high already.

 

Blame the system then!

I would have liked Larry to fight Page and Thomas. Yes Page could have happened around the Frank or Marvis fight ...But unbelievably the Marvis fight was bigger than a Page fight. It's not an excuse. It should have happened, I just dont see why Page couldn't have been put on hold until Holmes can take down Marvis and Coetzee? It's not like Page was burning hot.

There has never been a convincing argument put forward for Page being such an outstanding or worthy #1 contender anyway!

Larry was talking retirement after the Bey fight who as Ring Magazine #3 and ahead of Page. Larry took Williams and Spinks for retirement cash but it backfired.

Thomas was obligated to a voluntary defence so he took Weaver then another voluntary against Berbick. He hurt his eye in sparring with Ken Lacuster. I'm not sure why a Holmes fight did not happen. Maybe Larry was dithering about retirement but certainly David Bey, Page, Coetzee and Tim Witherspoon were all rated above Weaver and Berbick when Thomas fought them.

You never said when Larry was supposed to fight Witherspoon or Weaver in rematches did you? As it was, both those guys did lose to Bonecrusher after Larry beat him.

 

Any dimwit knows it had nothing to do with the system.

Frazier was NOT a bigger fight than Page, Jesus. More money on this occasion has nothing to do with being a bigger fight. Absurd.

Coetzee was not even the champ when Page was put on hold for TWO fights. I cannot fathom how you continually fail to comprehend this cold hard FACT.

The retirement talk didn't fool anyone, well.......

Holmes stated he would NEVER fight Thomas on various occasions. We don't need to spin fairytales and lies, it's stone cold fact.

I didn't. The comment was not made in any sych fashion.

atsch

THE END!

 

Yes it was a fact that Coetzee was not yet champion. But he became champion the same month Larry fought Frank.

The WBC wanted to scupper any unification fight and had already built up Page into a much bigger deal than he was.

Page got to be #1 only because Berbick (who beat Page) lost his last fight. To make more of an outstanding challenger claim for a WBC #1 Berbick and Page should have rematched. The WBC was so desperate not to deal with the WBA at all. They even had a anti South African policy as well.

Right after Holmes beating Witherspoon, Dokes has his obligatory Coetzee defence (traditional for WBA champions back then) and since Dokes is tied up with that one Holmes picks unranked Frank just to stay busy the same month that Coetzee beats Dokes in an upset.

Now with Coetzee and Holmes as the two champions the biggest fight out there is Holmes v Coetzee not Holmes vs Page.

Larry wants this fight but when it looks like Coetzee wants more time out of the ring he is offered big money for Frazier and Larry takes this hoping the WBC will allow him to still peruse Coetzee next.

The WBC already sanction Frazier are no doubt irritated that Larry is more concerned with fighting a rival champion next rather than their own #1 challenger then start unnecessarily campaigning for Larry to fight Page next. but Larry only has eyes for Coetzee after Frazier.

I think Larry walks away from the WBC under the umbrella of the IBF to pursue Coetzee. By the time that fight falls through the WBC title has been won and lost again and Larry and Coetzee have to take seperate fights in order to defend their own titles. Coetzee picks a guy losing fights and Larry picks a guy winning fights.

Coetzee lost his belt to underdog Page.

Larry then signs to fight the guy Coetzee should have fought David Bey because he beat Page. It was losing to Bey that actually got Page the shot at Coetzee!!!