SEMIFINALS: The All-time Heavyweight H2H Tourney: VITALI vs. ALI

Umm.....if you can't see the answers (you might not like them but they are) then why provide you with more?
Surprise, surprise I haven't changed your mind about Ali...was never going to. Just pointing out as obviously as I could that your post is exaggerated tosh. Ali had no ring smarts/savvy? I can't answer this really since it's so far off the chain.
You have the fights on film (between him and Frazier) and you can't see any times a Frazier left hits a glove of Ali's or he rolls with it or dodges it? Not once? Really? Obviously, I don't believe you.

And therein lies the crux of why I will never be able to answer you to your satisfaction. Not because I can't provide answers but because you will pretend the answers aren't there, just like you pretend a skillful and accomplished boxer like Muhammad Ali never really existed and everyone was somehow hoodwinked!

We differ. You have a major axe to grind it seems to me and...errr....just leave it I guess....we are at the proverbial impasse.

 

How do you know he didn't? You don't.

Also, winning a rematch wouldn't wipe out the disastrous first loss. Vitali beating Byrd in a rematch wouldn't have done much for his record; people would simply claim Byrd was shot. Like they always do.

 

Byrd was fresh as daisy after he beat Vitali. Not a bruise, scratch, cut , kd. NOTHING.
He barely broke a sweat.:roflatsch

 

you know what i was getting at but came back with the usual bull****.

**** off dickhead. don't waste my time because you can't be adult about it. ego driven cretin.

 

*watches Assman inevitably implode as usual:hi:

 

just wrote a long post but didn't quote you. then i clicked on the next page before sending it off and lost it.

i'm not writing it all out again.

*******!!! i can't believe i did that. just stupid.

 

implode??? :rofl:rofl:rofl

you've been watching too many films again haven't you...

as i say... deluded. :hi:

 

they weren't answers, so there was nothing to like.

Ali did have a bit of ring savvy against clueless morons like Foreman, but that isn't exactly something to boast about now is it? being a bit smarter than Foreman is the equivalent of being told you're only slightly less ugly than the elephant man.

i'm not saying that Ali was hit with EVERY shot that was thrown his way, or that he didn't block a few here and there. but overall, his defence was garbage, and he was hit with the majority of the shots that were fired at him. nothing will change that fact. it's only your delusion that allows you to see Ali in a warped way that didn't even exist.

no Axe to grind at all. just people don't like to hear the truth when it's told.

you didn't tell me when Frazier threw more than his left hook by the way... maybe because that was also bull****.

 

come back Tomorrow, Loudon. i'll do the post again. not doing it Tonight though.

 

Ali didn't have ring smarts and a high IQ at all.
Then....
Ali did have a bit of ring savvy

point out which fight with Frazier, and what rounds, where he blocked the left hook with success???
Then....
i'm not saying that Ali was hit with EVERY shot that was thrown his way, or that he didn't block a few here and there.

Frazier used more than his left hook??

You haven't contradicted this one ha ha, I'm sure you must be aware that Frazier threw a perfuntory right to head and body many, many times in all of his fights though.

For a start, I'm not bowing to your ridiculous demands, the onus is not on me to provide you with names, places and dates of the bleeding obvious.

Your twisting and turning and putting words in my mouth is of no use no matter how many "Prove yourself beyond doubt then????? Huh???!!!!" type comments you rebut with.

The climb-down quoted above from your previous posts should demonstrate to all that your baiting and trolling is weak and ill-tempered at best.

You deny that Ali demonstrated any truly remarkable boxing skills, that's just fine. I don't mind. It's just that the notion is laughable in my opinion......you doink.

 

But the point is, Ali wasn't cracked quite a bit when he was prime.

Of course if Vitali had hit Ali, like Norton, he'd have been in serious trouble. But he wouldn't have fought the Ali that fought Norton. This thread is asking who would win between both fighters at their best.

The version of Ali at 25, that fought Williams and Folley etc, was a completely different fighter to the one that fought Ken Norton in the 70's.

 

Byrd is only used as an example, to highlight the fact that Vitali was troubled by his movement.

The Cooper and Doug Jones cards are irrelevant, because Ali was a young Clay just starting out, and Vitali fights nothing like Cooper and Jones did.

 

Don't worry about it. I've done that before. I know how annoying it is.

But just tell me specifically, why you think Vitali himself would easily have beaten Ali, without referring to Cooper, Jones, Norton and Spinks etc.

Because those guys aren't really relevant to this debate.

You think it would have been a miss match and a beat down.

So let's have it. :good

 

It's not a problem. I know we don't get on, but I appreciate that you've got a lot of posters to answer.

Like I've said, forget replying in detail, just tell me why you think Vitali would easily have beaten him.

That will do for me.

 

Because Ali is a decision fighter and Klitschkos don't lose decisions.