SEMIFINALS: The All-time Heavyweight H2H Tourney: VITALI vs. ALI

Cleveland Williams and Ernie Terrell fought much more like Vittles and Ali had no problem with them. Oh and did I mention that PRIME Ali? Ole Vits quit against slower, softer punching and not nearly as talented Chris Byrd who flew to Germany on a weeks notice. Use your common sense man!! atsch

 

so-called "prime" Ali struggled against light heavy Mildenberger. No chance in hell he can beat Vitali.

 

No he didn't.

Mildenberger got stopped in a bloody mess. You stupid.

 

That's the problem in this thread. People think Ali never struggled with fighers (Hey, he won didn't he!) but people keep bringing up Byrd because Vitali 'struggled' with him and lost.

Ali didn't look in control of the fight vs. Mildenberger for some of the opening rounds. Watch the fight. Yes, he struggled vs. a LHW. It's OK because he ended up winning.

 

@Loudon...

Vitali controls distance very well with his jab. he keeps fighters off balance with it. Ali had bad balance to begin with, so it's only going to be made worse.

Vitali is hard to get to with his reach as it is, but coupled with his leaning back style he has, it only becomes more problematic for Ali.

Ali's left hook will be taken away completely due to the size and reach of Vitali, so there's one department that's shut down.

Ali didn't have good timing and accuracy with the jab, he just threw it out there towards the head area. that's why we see most of Ali's opponents slipping the jab, or using head movement on the outside so it doesn't find it's target.

when Ali missed the jab, he recoils backwards with his hands up making it easy to tee off on him. imagine what a fighter like Vitali, who fights at range, would do to him every time he did it. he'd just open up as Ali was against the ropes with little in the way of a reply due to Vitali keeping him at range.

Vitali has shown he can fight in centre ring, on the front foot, and the back foot. Ali cannot fight on the front foot to save his life. his control at centre ring is also very poor. we've seen this time and time again. Ali fights on the back foot, and the back foot only to have success.

Ali won't be using the lead right with much success due to Vitali being good on the counter and having timing to his punches. Vitali would make him fall short and nail him with the right hand. with Ali stepping in with his body weight behind the punch, the counter shot will only be harder due Ali stepping into the shot.

Ali will not shut down any of Vitali's punches. if you think so, tell me how he does it. i can't see it in any way.

Ali has poor defence. his opponents have had much success regardless of their ability.

Vitali has proven that he doesn't find it difficult against opponents that use the ring with movement. Ali on the other hand, has found EVERY sort of style to be problematic regardless of what stage in his career he was.

Vitali has everything covered, in every area. there is no way Ali wins this fight. he's much stronger in the key areas than is Ali. that's just the simple truth of it. he does not win this fight in any way.

in his supposed prime, which Fighter did Ali beat that was anywhere near to the class of Vitali, and that style he had??

because Ali, in the years you say was his prime, came up against fighters that were either none world class, or completely finished.

 

Ali very often gave up the opening rounds. Are you suggesting he struggled through his whole career?

 

"Ali didn't have good timing and accuracy with the jab, he just threw it out there towards the head area"

Ha ha, do you really think because you say these things that makes them true??

Unadulterated tosh. And this time, instead of demanding that I find examples of Ali KOing man-mountains with one waft of his left jab, YOU find me anyone on this forum that agrees with the above statement.

 

i never said Ali didn't have any ring IQ. i said that Ali didn't have a HIGH ring IQ.

no contradiction there.

go back and read the full sentence i wrote. i said that Ali didn't have ring savvy UNLESS, it was against a moronic type fighter like Foreman. atsch

i asked you to point out where Ali had blocked the left hook with SUCCESS, not blocking a few here and there. any fighter regardless of how poor their defence is, will block a few shots every now and again. atsch

so you'd call a fighter who got hit with most shots that were thrown at him, a good defence fighter? so what, he blocked a few here and there. that doesn't come close to describing Ali as having good defence. atsch

Frazier may have thrown his right a few times through out a fight, but that doesn't come close to describing Frazier as a two fisted fighter you idiot. he was all left hook.

i know you can't give me Frazier fights that have him using the right with any regularity what so ever. because if you tried, you'd come off looking silly. that's why you can't give me those specific fights and rounds. :deal

again, your post had nothing to it. why waste your time? atsch

 

Ali wasn't good at setting up his jab to be accurate at all. why do you think it was easily slipped???

because his timing was ****.

Ali missed with lots of his combinations.... because his timing and accuracy was ****.

tell me these fights where it wasn't??? just give me them without saying the onus is on me. because if you can't, that means you're talking garbage with your head in the clouds.

don't be insecure. give me these supposed fights that proves me wrong. or shut up.

 

Dig, dig, dig, dig......

The MASSIVE GLARING CONTRADICTIONS and climb-down/back-tracking are from your own posts! Copied and pasted directly! The you say "go back and read the sentences I wrote.." ha ha ha, unreal!

You only NOW in your latest post claim Frazier threw ANY right hands AT ALL!!

I give a flying-fig about Ali and his combinations! Another example of you ignoring the issues/ANSWERS I have already given you......

Yours and my RATING of Ali as an effective boxer are NOT what I ever questioned. I said "We differ" before, that won't change. Another thing that won't change is that your bashing and belittling of Ali and his skills (and also his opponents skills by proxy) is EXAGGERATED GUFF!
Turn it in.......you utter doinkleton.

 

I'm not cherry-picking. Ali had trouble here and there but I prefer judging boxer by their best wins, not by their off days. As I said, Ali beat boxers better than those he struggled against; this does not apply for Vitali. He lost to Byrd and he went on to never beat a boxer as good at any point in his career. There is no evidence that Vitali is better than that level, there is however more than enough evidence that Ali performed significantly better against tougher opposition than Cooper against whom he struggled for whatever reason.

 

Answer these questions:

1. When did Ali fight Cooper and Doug Jones?

2. When did Ali fight Norton?

3. When was Ali's prime?

4. Does Vitali fight anything like Cooper and Jones?

 

1. No he didn't.

2. It was Ali's FOURTH scheduled 15 round fight in less than 6 months, and only 1 month after the Brian London fight.

3. Mildenburger was a southpaw who fought nothing like Vitali.


Is this your evidence that supports your theory?


No chance in hell, based on a fight against Mildenburger?

 

he beat them all, you cret. Besides which Vitali ISNT overtly defensive.

You are providing evidence AGAINST your own argument. At least that means no one needs counter you, its very kind of you to counter your own argument for us.