Send in an ATG to beat Prime Liston (mid to late 50's version)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BrutalForeman, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    There is only one man u send in.

    Get me ......Rocky Marciano!
     
  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Nice defense.
     
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  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "As a fighter, Liston could box, cut off the ring, slip the jab, parry the right and hit with both hands. He was strong as a bull, punched effortlessly and had a cast iron chin. No doubt Sonny was a born fighter. He never got wild or spaghetti armed, and he kept the pressure on. Fighters who tried to box him either lost every round or didn't survive to hear the final bell. And those who tried to take it to him, like Cleveland Williams, Nino Valdez and Mike DeJohn, were taken apart and knocked out.

    Liston was also a tremendous boxer who was fundamentally sound and hard to hit. Sonny had a great left jab that he used both offensively and defensively. Everything he did started with his jab. He pressured his opponents from behind it and forced them to deal with his 84 inch reach. His jab came out straight and even when he missed, which was seldom, his usually retreating opponent was out of position to launch a counter attack. Sonny's high guard and partially extended left hand covered his center beautifully and therefore his opponents were forced to punch around his left hand when they felt the gumption to go on the attack, which made it easy for Sonny to redirect their jab and punch inside of it. And unlike every other big puncher and aggressive heavyweight, Liston had no problem moving backward when he need to.

    Another Liston tactic was to hook off the jab, which usually forced his opponents into his right hand. He was also able to get close and work his iron-fisted uppercuts from both sides on the inside. And because he held his guard tight and his elbows close to his body, he was hard to hold and move around, simply because there wasn't any body part to grab. And if you opened your arms and tried to wrap him up, he could take your head off coming up the middle.

    Think about all the great heavyweight champs from John L. Sullivan up to the Klitschko brothers. How many can it be said about that they were both a great boxer and puncher? I would say after Joe Louis, is Liston, and a tier below them are Lennox Lewis along with Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko. And in all fairness, Lennox Lewis was a good boxer, but he could be forced to fight with his back to the ropes and then be held or he'd look for the referee to break the action. As for the Klitschkos, they're more than adequate boxers, but they rely more on their size and length to stymie their opponents, and offensively, they aren't very imaginative. What they do, they do well, but it's more driven by not making any mistakes and taking what's being given to them." - Frank Lotierzo.

    Doesn't sound to robotic to me.
     
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes. Despite all his disadvantages, Rocky will "find a way".
     
  5. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know Frank. Many of his writings are wayyyyy off the mark. This is an example of one. Liston was far removed from being a GOOD boxer let alone great. Louis WAS a great boxer and if you watch him fight you see all these attributes. Not so Liston.
     
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  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Frank Lotierzo has been involved in boxing for 40+ years and is well respected by the boxing world. I'd take his opinion over your's any day
     
  7. BrutalForeman

    BrutalForeman Active Member Full Member

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    Old, ill prepared Liston was close to knocking out Ali, according to Ali's own words

    Prime Liston would have knocked him out
     
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  8. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frank is sometimes on the mark. Sometimes wayyy off. Here he is wayyyy off.
     
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  9. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    I wouldn't pick any heavyweight with a great deal of confidence over Liston.

    Guys who I think could beat a prime Liston: Louis, 70s Ali, Foreman, Holmes and maybe Lennox Lewis. But it's not a really strong pick on any of them.
     
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  10. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali , Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, and possibly Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield in my book. Ali's foot speed , much faster jab and lead right hand and mental toughness , and ability to get into an opponents mind esp if the opponent is merely a bully or weak inside. Liston quit in the 1st fight with Ali, and possibly quit in the 2nd. Holmes jab was faster, Holmes also had better foot speed, and mental toughness. Frazier, prime Frazier was extremely hard to hit cleanly, and was the epitome of a pressure fighter but with great skills outside of a real strong right hand. What would Liston do if a fighter was coming at him but hard to hit? Liston didn't fight like Foreman were Foreman used his pure strength to control Frazier and set Frazier up.Liston was more of a stalker-puncher, behind a heavy jab, setting up his power shots. But Frazier wouldn't let Liston set up his power shots. ( Frazier made quick fisted fighters like Ellis, Mathis, and of course Ali miss repeatedly and countered viscouly off a miss) what would Liston do getting pushed back, and not being allowed to get full extension on his punches, what would he do in limited space?. Foreman also with his tried and true formula. Push the opponent off balance with his great physical strength, nail them as they try to reset. Could Liston deal with the physicality of Foreman ? No one in his past suggest he could.
     
  11. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    I must be watching someone else then
     
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  12. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    All true except for cutting off the ring,he never learned it.
     
  13. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Yeah that would be Ronny Piston , easy mistake .
     
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  14. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Liston was murder inside, watch him belt Patterson.
     
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  15. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But Patterson wasn't. Patterson no way, shape or form was the inside fighter Frazier was. Or nearly as mentally or physically strong.
     
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