Send in an ATG to beat Prime Liston (mid to late 50's version)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BrutalForeman, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I can certainly agree with this. Perhaps this always would have contributed to his disappointing reign?
     
  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sonny was old when he fought Patterson and Ali but I don’t think he was in his mid to late 50s.
     
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    No in real life Frazier was always taller than Patterson. They were photographed together many times.


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    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  4. Arminius1

    Arminius1 Member Full Member

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    Ali for sure. I read the Sonny was afraid of crazy people. And he thought Clay/Ali was crazy.
     
  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Yea he withstood pain. No dispute on that. Marshall being much smaller may have played a role in Sonny lasting the distance. I don't know anyone who has video of that fight. I did read an account that said Sonny was caught laughing at one of Marshalls slick moves. Marshall was a cutie from what I understand. He was fighting this fight Sonny was laughing and Marshall call him as he was laughing with his mouth open. In a sense it could have been a lucky punch is my point.
     
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  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Sonny was afraid of the Nation Of Islam. They have a lot of power in the prison system and Sonny saw first-hand the brutality they were capable of.
     
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It was an early fight, it probably shouldn’t matter because this was before Liston went to prison for almost two years. He came back starting his career over again in 1958. That’s when sonnys career really began. Anything Sonny did before 1958 doesn't really count because he had only been active two years then was away for just as long.

    But at any rate, the story of the laughing causing the broken jaw only came from Sonny. It never made it into any press report. The official report says Sonny got hit a lot of times by a telegraphed corkscrew right hand - probably because he wasn’t experienced enough at that point. But it probably doesn’t matter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  8. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good post .....liston was excellent but never great
     
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  9. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not too keen on them myself!
     
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  10. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "But that was a freak" according to boxing men present. As one says "Marshall was hitting away at Liston and Sonny was sort of laughing at him and suddenly just as he opened his mouth, Marshall hit him flush and broke the jaw. It was five months before Liston could fight again"

    Independent

    Long Beach, California

    Wednesday, December 6th, 1961
     
  11. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta We Do Chicken Right!! Full Member

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    Louis, Tyson, Lennox Lewis possible Holyfield and Bowe
     
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's just crazy how much weight some attempt to put into a loss a guy had in his 8th ever pro fight 12 months into his pro career. An 8 round fight against a guy with more than triple the professional experience. A split decision in which the loser had his jaw broken. Liston had him up and down like a yoyo six months and two fights later for a stoppage. Liston then whupped him again 12 months later for good measure while not losing a single round.

    It's the epitome of clutching at straws and incredibly shallow.
     
  13. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This gets to the heart of things!
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yeah, I now believe anything Sonny did before 1958 shouldn’t count against him. Sonny was a big young novice. It happened. His jaw was broke and he was not laughing at the time. The report says he got hit a lot by right hands. That will do it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yeah but that gets ruled out because the fight did not happen in 1961. Until there is film turning up to prove it did happen it is safe to say it did not happen like that. What was documented at the time was Sonny got hit a Lot of times with the same punch in that fight but it does not matter because nothing he did before 1958 should really count.