Send in an ATG to stop James Toney

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by escudo, Feb 9, 2016.


  1. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier is the definition of a punch sponge. Facts.
     
  2. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

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    http://compuboxonline.com/record-book/

    Of course, he was also deep into the 300s against guys like McCallum and Jirov. He'd have a nice chance of putting himself on the 400 club list again if he had Frazier in front of him.
     
  3. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Anyone can be knocked out, but some its much harder then others. And then theirs that special few that it was damn near impossible. Toney was one of those. I don't see anyone close to Toneys best fighting weight who could do it. Chin of steele plus very underated defensive skills. Maybe a lightheavy or cruiser like Archie Moore, E.Charles, Holyfield, or perhaps a lucky shot from Foster. But other then that....... Maybe M.Spinks?
     
  4. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Anyone who calks prime frazier a punch sponge doesnt know **** about frazier.
     
  5. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He was a sitting duck for Foreman's extra telegraphed uppercuts.
     
  6. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No offense but who on earth regards James Toney's defense as anything short of the second best of his generation. (Whitaker was better but that is a toss-up in and of itself) But Spinks is an interesting choice at cruiser with his unorthodox style he could really trouble Toney.
     
  7. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier was a great fighter with brutal intensity, astounding work rate and could take a beating and keep coming, but Frazier had one great punch in his ****nal, the rest were just good to mediocre. Toney could
    lay on the ropes keep an eye out for the left hook dip underneath and counter with body work and uppercuts. He won't have to drop his hands to counter like Ali did, the opening won't be nearly as wide. This would be an all out war that probably ends in a tight controversial decision with Toney landing more accurately but Frazier throwing more. I see this as a coin toss if Toney comes in shape. Their styles make this a shoe in for fight of the year.:yep
     
  8. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The Mike McCallum of the first fight was as sharp as I've ever seen him.
     
  9. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No offense taken, and it my have been stating the obvious to some who love the fight game. But their are some who don't seem to understand or see just how good Toney was defensively.
    It was the main reason he was able to go all the way up heavyweight with some success. But as other have pointed out, it also Showed his lack of discipline and showed the world the classic case of a "should have been", or "could have been".
     
  10. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    True he could have been far greater than he was if he had the discipline of a Mayweather but the man stepped up 2 full weight classes and absolutely school a (granted weak) heavywieght title holder. But in that fight with Jirov I saw him take on an absolute machine of a man who threw damn near 100 punches a round and about half way through the fight I started feeling bad for Jirov because all his corner could say was "You got to throw more punches"
    I just remember thinking that sheer volume wouldn't be enough to stop James Toney. It's got to be accurate because this wasn't a guy to just wilt from sheer activity. Toney in spite of his laziness in spite of his attitude and in spite of all of his mistakes is one of the most compelling men I've ever seen in the ring. That alone makes him an ATG in my book.
     
  11. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Definately not a punch sponge but his bobbing and bending at the waist made him vulnerable to the uppercut. Toney had a very good one on the inside and I think Frazier would eat quite a few trying to land those hooks.
     
  12. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And that's where we differ at in opinion. I'd say he had ATG ability but his own laziness or his own lackadaisicaness keeps him at merely go8d or maybe very good in my opinion. If he had the drive of say a M.Ward , or Gatti or Mancini men who had average ability but made it with sheer will and spartan training we'd be talking about him a 100 yrs from now. But today, because of that laziness he really is an afterthought.
     
  13. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Toney never beat anyone as good, big, or active as a prime frazier and just happened to lose to a few fighters who were much smaller, didnt hit as hard, and whose only assett was their energy level. No doubt in my mind that toney would lose wide to frazier the only question in my mind is if frazier stops him.
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    There's several heavyweights who would stop him.
    I'd like to see Liston do it if I have to choose one.
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Frazier would flog Frazier, Jesus H Christ hahaha