Sergey Alexandrovich Kovalev vs. Santos Saúl Álvarez Barragán

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Sep 15, 2019.


The Krusher or Cinnamon Boy?

Poll closed Nov 2, 2019.
  1. Kovalev on points

    14.7%
  2. Kovalev by stoppage

    41.2%
  3. Draw

    2.9%
  4. Álvarez on points

    25.5%
  5. Álvarez by stoppagae

    15.7%
  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    401,394
    83,260
    Nov 30, 2006
    If by round you meant to say minute, then yeah.
     
    CST80 and Odins beard like this.
  2. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,638
    17,706
    Apr 3, 2012
    This poll is a perfect storm of Soviet fanboys and Alvarez haters.
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    245,125
    240,487
    Nov 23, 2013
    Which if these posters in particular are you referring to that voted for Kovalev, I don't see too many pure Soviet fanboys on that list, do you? Maybe 4 tops, counting myself (more a pure Kovalev fanboy). How about this, they're all logical, fair and balanced well reasoned posters, who have a difference of opinion from you, and you're talking out of your ass trying to come up with deflections and excuses to explain it away? They think Kovalev will win, because he's a top tier grade A talent and whether your biased ass wants to admit it or not, Kovalev more than has a chance to walk away the victor and by KO in this fight, and if say otherwise, it's you who's being illogical and yes, a hater.
     
    Odins beard likes this.
  4. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

    50,553
    18,241
    Oct 7, 2006
    That, and I believe that Canelo has self belief, something Mikey seemed to lack when he fought Spence.
     
    kirk likes this.
  5. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,638
    17,706
    Apr 3, 2012
    CST80
     
  6. f1ght3rz

    f1ght3rz Ronaldoooo is crying in his caaaaaar Full Member

    17,693
    21,284
    Jan 31, 2018
    Is Clenelo a Top 10 P4P level fighter? Yes, he is.
    Is Clenelo a Superstar in boxing? Yes, he is.
    Is Clenelo the best MW right now? Yes, he is.
    Is Clenelo a cheater? Yes, he is.

    But man, people are absolutely blind going into this fight. The betting market is paying out +358 right now on Kovalev as the highest price available and i can't get enough of Kovalev here.

    Well, Kovalev is not in his prime. We all know this. He's getting older. But man, if Kovalev would be in his prime fighting this small guy at 175, he should be like -200. I see this basically as a 50/50 fight with a great chance that Kovalev hurts or at least rocks/stuns Clenelo with his power. The Kovalev jab is one of the best jabs in the game, absolutely on the same level as prime GGG jab, just two weight classes above. There are weight classes for a reason. There are 15 pounds between 160 and 175 - obviously. This isn't a lot if you see two ordinary guys weighing 160 and 175 but in boxing it's a bit different. It's not like Canelo is a big 160 pound fighter. He's a natural Super Lightweight / Welterweight who just grew into Super Welter and Middleweight, then moving up to Super Middleweight for one fight vs. an Europeal level fighter in Rocky Fielding (i don't count the 164 catchweight fight vs. Chavez Jr as a SMW fight though). Sergey Kovalev is still a world class fighter at 175. Probably Top 3, at least Top 5 alongside Bivol, Beterbiev, Gvozdyk and Alvarez. Zurdo might enter that Top 5 ranking soon - maybe. Some other fighters knocking on the Top 5 door anytime soon - probably.

    So back to the fight...imo 50/50. The result depends on the fact who can establish his game plan. I think Kovalev will try to work the jab all night long. He looked pretty good in his last two fights vs. Alvarez II and Yarde. Both Alvarez and Yarde are heavy handed and very strong & big 175 pounders. Both could easily fight at CW. I think Yarde has serious power, might knock out Heavyweights. He's a physical specimen although he's lacking an extensive skillset.

    I'm reading "Canelo will get the stoppage via body shots..."....come on man. If it would be that easy, why Alvarez and especially Yarde didn't get the stoppage? Kovalev was taking shots from Yarde to the head, to the body, big shots, and he was hurt at one point, nearly stopped or at least dropped, but he survived without getting knocked down and toughed it out in the end with a ****ing jab - he dropped Yarde by a damn jab. I know Yarde was already hurt, took tons of shots and was tired aswell - but still.

    I don't see the Canelo stoppage. Who has Canelo stopped at elite level?
    Jacobs? No.
    Golovkin? Hell, no.
    Lara? No.
    Trout? No.
    Mayweather? Lmfao.

    Clenelo has ZERO (0) stoppages at 160 including the 164 catchweight fight vs. Chavez. And was barely getting stoppages at 154 on world class level too. I don't rate those kind of stoppages like Khan (glass jaw), Angulo or Kirkland. To be honest, i only rate two stoppages: Smith and Josesito. That's it. So he has like 2 decent stoppages (i talk about decent fighters, not world class fighters although i really like/rate Beefy). I don't think Canelo has any kind of big knockout power at 154/160. It's questionable if he even has average power at 175.

    Everyone expects Canelo coming out, breaking old guy down with body shots, securing a mid round stoppage vs. an old, tired and fading Kovalev. Hell, if this happens, Credit to the Clenbuterol Cheater, BIG CREDITS, but man, i don't see it. I think the key factor will be the jab of Kovalev and how Canelo deals with it + how Canelo takes the power.

    I think this goes to the distance. I expect a close decision for either Canelo or Kovalev. Although i think Kovalev has a better chance to stop Canelo than vice versa. I wouldn't be surprised if Canelo wins a close decision. He has that kind of background edging those close fights in Vegas. Not saying he didn't deserve the win vs. Golovkin in the second fight, but as legit the win was as fake was the first fight draw.

    I'll go with Kovalev via SD. But i think Canelo UD is another likely result.

    Hopefully it'll be a great fight. Jacobs vs. Canelo was a stinker in my opinion. Canelo really didn't want to take any risks as he was cruising, Jacobs boxed well but didn't take any risks either. So we had a chess match with one guy being busier, cleaner, outlanding other guy. 7-5 / 8-4 like decision. No domination. Thats another thing. When did Canelo ever dominated world class fighters??? He had close fights with Lara, Trout, GGG, Jacobs. Three of them arguably beat him, Jacobs made it very close. And Mayweather also beat him. I know, he was way younger there but it's not like the GGG or Jacobs fight was a long time ago.

    You can predict a Clenelo win, but don't act as it'll be an easy night of work. It's total BS and one-dimensional thinking pattern.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  7. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    245,125
    240,487
    Nov 23, 2013
    Yeah, why don't you try reading what I wrote moron, I included myself in the three or four posters that are Kovalev fanboys.
     
    greenhornet likes this.
  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,638
    17,706
    Apr 3, 2012
    Kovalev is pretty limited these days. Middling stamina, no body work, stands almost straight up with little upper body movement. He still can jab.

    This is an easier fight for Canelo than Jacobs, who I thought would beat him.
     
    22JM likes this.
  9. f1ght3rz

    f1ght3rz Ronaldoooo is crying in his caaaaaar Full Member

    17,693
    21,284
    Jan 31, 2018
    1. Canelo stamina is a questionmark too. Especially with 7 / 15 pounds more on his ribs.
    2. Body shots vs shorter guy who is a great counterpuncher isn't really a good game plan anyway. I can see....you never boxed in your life. If Kovalev wants to win, he should avoid going to the body. Maybe some jabs to the body to set up the right hand.
     
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,638
    17,706
    Apr 3, 2012
    Don't use my line.

    What will surprise you is that Kovalev will look very close in size to Danny Jacobs, but will be slow and robotic in comparison.

    Remember that guy Chico Corrales?
     
  11. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,233
    131,457
    Jul 21, 2009
    This content is protected


    TOM GRAY: CANELO UD


    I believe that Kovalev and trainer Buddy McGirt will formulate a game plan that will trouble Canelo. The Russian titleholder has huge advantages in weight, strength, height and reach, which I suspect will lead to jab-and-grab type tactics. Team Canelo will be expecting that, however, and I see the Mexican star utilizing his counterpunching ability to score well with eye-catching power shots from the outside. If Kovalev is being punished for using the jab, then he may stop using it as much as he needs to. Also, when Kovalev attempts to clinch, I think Canelo will free his hands to score well on the inside. Canelo will likely edge this fight, but it will be a lot closer than many people are expecting.

    MICHAEL WOODS: CANELO MD

    Mikey Garcia thought he saw something. We saw how that turned out for him, when Errol Spence gave him the business. The Canelo vs. Kovalev fight will not play out in close to the same fashion. You will see even rounds, tight rounds … but Canelo is so savvy. I trust his judgement, I trust that he knows, from casing Kovalev, that he will be able to box his way, cautiously, to a decision win. Canelo, by MD.

    MARTY MULCAHEY: CANELO UD

    A very good match-up of styles, and importantly there were no pre-conditions for this fight as has been the case with previous Saul “Canelo” Alvarez fights. I have more concerns about how Canelo’s hand-speed and frame reacts to the added weight than I do about Kovalev. I have always appreciated Kovalev (I believe he defeated Andre Ward in first bout). But like others have witnessed an appreciable decline in form in the last three years. That is why I am picking Alvarez, who will attack the body early and reap the benefits late for a unanimous decision victory. The size difference does give me some apprehension; but Alvarez showed against Golovkin and Jacobs that he can absorb punishment and big punches with his chin or defuse it with his feet. Kovalev wins some of the middle rounds in an admirable fightback, but loses the opening two and final four emphatically.

    ANSON WAINWRIGHT: CANELO UD

    Really intriguing fight. This is a sizeable jump in weight for Canelo against a career light heavyweight. Kovalev is no Rocky Fielding and Canelo will have to be careful. It’s a gamble for Canelo and Golden Boy. However, it looks like a calculated one. Kovalev is now 36 and starting to creek. Kovalev is no longer the fighter he once was, but to his credit he has morphed into more of a boxer than earlier in his career. It will still take an exceptional fighter to beat him, but he’s on the edge of the cliff and Canelo will pick and prod his openings early while being cautious of the Russian’s jab and thumping power. Canelo will step it up in the later rounds and work his way toward a unanimous decision.

    NORM FRAUENHEIM: CANELO UD

    Sergey Kovalev’s resilience in an ongoing comeback gets a defining test against a Canelo who only gets better. Kovalev has advantages, both obvious and intangible. His jab is a thing of beauty, a mix of power and precision. He appears to have the renewed confidence of a man who has encountered adversity and learned from it. Kovalev is also taller. But the light heavyweight is not necessarily bigger than the middleweight, which is a key difference. Canelo’s heavily-muscled upper torso on top of heavy legs is a well-balanced force hard to shake and harder to stop. It also provides Canelo with all of the leverage he’ll need to deliver punishing body blows. He’s smart enough to be cautious, and he will be throughout 12 rounds for a points victory on all three cards.

    MICHAEL MONTERO: CANELO PTS

    A handful of old boxing adages come to mind … “A good big man always beats a good little man,” “Styles make fights,” “Kill the body and the head will fall,” and lastly, “Speed kills.” When it comes to Canelo-Kovalev, all of the above come into play. Canelo has never stopped an elite opponent north of junior middleweight, yet his exceptional head movement and underrated defense figure to give Kovalev fits as he attempts to keep distance with his jab. All of that points to a distance fight in Las Vegas, which leads us to another old adage. The Russian will have to win nine rounds to get the draw. Look for Canelo to win by decision in a fight that is closer and more competitive than many expect.
     
    Odins beard likes this.
  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,233
    131,457
    Jul 21, 2009
    BOXING INSIDERS

    REGGIE JOHNSON (FORMER TWO-DIVISION WORLD CHAMPION): CANELO KO

    This fight is a tough one to call with Canelo moving up two weight classes from 160 to 175-pounds. In 1998, that same opportunity was presented to me and I jumped on that grand opportunity and knocked out William Guthrie and won my second world title. I feel this is a fight Canelo will win, but it will be more difficult for him. I like Canelo and his awesome body shots in this fight. Canelo by late-round body shots KO.

    MIKE ALTAMURA (MANAGER): CANELO TKO 8

    I see some shaky spots early for Canelo, especially with closing the distance as Kovalev fires straight arrows. Eventually he gets his range and systematically breaks down Kovalev to the body for a mid-to-late stoppage.

    DUKE MCKENZIE (FORMER THREE-WEIGHT WORLD TITLEHOLDER/TV ANALYST): CANELO UD

    Canelo vs. Kovalev is a fascinating match up, because when a boxer moves up in weight it’s normally the lighter weight divisions. Canelo is moving up not one, but two weight divisions. Canelo undoubtedly is looking for legendary status. With one solitary loss to Floyd “Money” Mayweather, Canelo has bossed everyone he has fought and looked good doing so. Kovalev is a proud champion and served the light heavyweight division for many years and looks ready to go. Kovalev is tired and shopworn he can no longer pull the trigger to close the show. Canelo is too smart. He wins this fight via a unanimous decision to gain legendary status.

    CAMILLE ESTEPHAN (PROMOTER, EYE OF THE TIGER): CANELO TKO

    A very risky fight for both. Canelo has to deal with a giant compared to him, yet he will probably chop him down like a tree. I think Canelo stops him late.

    OSWALDO KULCHE (PROMOTER, PROMOCIONES DEL PUEBLO): CANELO TKO 11

    I think Kovalev will be too slow for Canelo, who will outbox Kovalev with speed and the stop him in the late rounds. If Kovalev connects, it could be an exciting match.

    CARL MORETTI (VICE PRESIDENT OF TOP RANK): CANELO TKO 11

    There’s an old song, “If I could turn back the hands of time.” Well, for Kovalev, I don’t think he can. [Buddy] McGirt will have him ready with a great game plan but Canelo is in his prime and it just won’t be enough. Then again, I think the Cowboys will win the Super Bowl.

    ERIC BOTTJER (MATCHMAKER, MATCHROOM): CANELO TKO 9

    I think Kovalev should try and make it a street fight at the beginning. Whether he does or not, Canelo will avoid serious trouble and take over after five rounds. The end will come from an accumulation of punches. I think Canelo by stoppage in nine rounds.

    CAMERON DUNKIN (PROMOTER, NOW BOXING PROMOTIONS): KOVALEV PTS

    Kovalev has a great jab. GGG landed so many jabs on Canelo and he’s so much bigger than Canelo. But with that said, Canelo is younger, faster and a great fighter and a great champion, so I could be nuts. I may be wrong, but I liked [Artur] Beterbiev, and everyone said I was wrong, but it went the way I thought, so I’ll stick with Kovalev by decision.

    VADIM KORNILOV (MANAGER): KOVALEV TKO

    I believe that if Kovalev will be fully trained and prepared for this fight he can win the fight by stoppage. If he’s not fully prepared, Canelo can stop him with body shots.

    STEPHEN EDWARDS (TRAINER): CANELO TKO

    I like Canelo by stoppage. I think Kovalev’s jab will be tough early. But Kovalev doesn’t have a mid-range game or inside game. At some point, Canelo gets in that range like Ray Leonard did against Donnie Lalonde and he stops Kovalev in a great fight.

    JOHN SCULLY (TRAINER): CANELO UD

    I was originally picking Kovalev and convincingly at that, but as I think about it the more, I think that Canelo is going to utilize his great head movement and counterpunching ability and come away with a surprising 12-round unanimous decision. As long as he stays off the ropes and out of the corners, I think he is going to be too shifty for Sergey.

    WAYNE MCULLOUGH (FORMER WORLD CHAMPION/TRAINER): CANELO KO 9

    I think most people think it’s going to be hard for the smaller Canelo. But I think he will be too slick and counterpunch Kovalev pretty easily. Kovalev needs room to let his right hands go behind his jabs, but I think they will be too slow and Canelo will get close and land heavy punches to the head then body and force a stoppage win around the ninth.

    MARIO ABRAHAM: (MANAGER): CANELO UD

    I think Canelo wins a unanimous decision. Kovalev is too slow for Canelo. Canelo could get the KO with body shots, but I like him by unanimous decision.

    KALLE SAUERLAND (PROMOTER, SAUERLAND EVENT): CANELO TKO

    I think it’s a real test for Canelo bearing in mind the divisions he’s skipped over. Kovalev certainly still packs a punch, but we’ve all seen the weakness to the body and I expect Canelo to go hard to the body and win by stoppage.

    FINAL TALLY

    18-2 in favor of Canelo
     
    Odins beard likes this.
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,638
    17,706
    Apr 3, 2012
    18-2 and one of the 2 is a guy with the letter V in his first and last name.
     
    Serge likes this.
  14. bandeedo

    bandeedo Loyal Member Full Member

    36,048
    24,027
    Feb 19, 2007
    the other is a golden boy direct competitor.
     
  15. Bustajay

    Bustajay Feel the Steel/Balls Deep Full Member

    32,832
    12,763
    Dec 9, 2012
    Voted Krusher by UD but can see a late stoppage from Big Red corner around the 11th
    #SavetheCashCow