Sergey Kovalev - light heavyweight all time placement?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Jel, Nov 3, 2019.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Maxim lost 29 of 116 fights ,8 of them when he was over 35 years old. A natural light heavy he fought 43 opponents over 190lbs.
    Five men he beat held world titles.
    Ignorance is bliss I suppose!
     
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  2. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You’re really going round in circles now. In your last post you stated: “Glen Johnson is a journeyman too, in the last half decade of his career at least”.

    Now, it’s that he was already a journeyman before he won a title...:facepalm:

    This, no doubt, is why Glen Johnson spent 8 consecutive years in the Ring’s Top-10 Light Heavyweights. :facepalm::facepalm:

    I can’t be bothered to keep going back and forth on this with you. You’re wrong. Go study and learn.
     
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You'll be the next candidate for a hate thread in the lounge!
     
  4. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :lol: You never know... Ever-decreasing circles for some posters, perhaps...
     
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  5. Golden_Feather99

    Golden_Feather99 Active Member Full Member

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    Kovalev's resume

    Gabriel Campillo: Former WBA champ and ranked #3 by both The Ring and TBRB. Campillo beat Shumenov, Cloud, Garay, and Murat. That's 4 LHW champions and he outboxed them all. Campillo was a talented boxer and one of the best LHWs (should've been a champ) when Kovalev beat him. Kovalev had no experience at world-level when he fought Campillo, yet he destroyed Campillo in 3 rounds.

    Nathan Cleverly: Cleverly was the WBO champion with 5 title defences. Kovalev-Cleverly was a pick 'em fight. Not an ATG fighter but he was one of the best LHWs in the world and Kovalev made him look like a bum.

    Bernard Hopkins: Yes, he was 49 years old but that doesn't mean Kovalev's win is meaningless. Hopkins was 48 when he won the IBF title from Cloud, 49 when he won the WBA title from Shumenov to become the unified LHW champion. Hopkins schooled both and then he got schooled by Kovalev. Hopkins wasn't old enough to unify the division but he was too old for Kovalev. Nowhere near a prime Hopkins but not a corpse either. It was the way Kovalev shut him down that was impressive imo. B-Hop was doing his usual thing laying traps around the ring but Kovalev didn't fall for it. He didn't overcommit and he stuck to the gameplan using his 1-2 and methodical pressure. Kovalev dominated Hopkins and it wasn't just because Hopkins was 49, it was also because Kovalev was a great boxer.

    Jean Pascal: Pascal was ranked #3 by Ring and TBRB when Kovalev beat him. Pascal beat an undefeated Chad Dawson. He beat Lucian Bute, Marcus Browne, and Diaconu (twice). 4 years after he lost to Kovalev, Pascal managed to beat a top 5 LHW in Marcus Browne. Kovalev is also the only fighter ever to stop Pascal.

    Andre Ward: Kovalev arguably beat Ward in their first fight. Ward was the best fighter of his era (post-Floyd/Pacman) and he had 3 fights at 175 before he fought Kovalev. This is where it comes down to a matter of opinion. How did you score the first Ward fight? Don't be a hypocrite though. Some people will call it Ward 2-0 here, and 0-2 in a Ward thread (robbery + low blows). Can't give the modern fighter credit. If you think Kovalev beat Ward in the first fight, that's a better win that most LHWs have on their resumes. Ward wasn't an ATG LHW but he was the greatest super MW of all time. This isn't much different from Sanchez beating Gomez, Gomez beating Zarate, or Hagler beating Hearns. The only difference is, Ward actually took his time to adjust at 175 before he fought Kovalev.

    Kovalev also holds wins over Alvarez, Chilemba, Mohammedi, and Yarde who were all top 10 LHWs when Kovalev beat them.

    • Kovalev holds 6 wins over top 5 LHWs (Hopkins, Pascal x2, Alvarez, Cleverly, Campillo)
    • Kovalev was a unified LHW champion (held 3/4 major titles) and the greatest LHW of his era (2013-present)
    • Kovalev is 13-4 in world title fights
    • Kovalev was one of the best p4p fighters in the world (top 10 for 4 years). At his peak, he was ranked #2 by both Ring and TBRB (arguably #1 the way he ****ed everyone up).
    I think Kovalev is a top 25 LHW if we consider resume and h2h. One thing people keep forgetting when they talk about resumes is losses (particularly underwhelming losses). Kovalev lost to Ward, Canelo, and Alvarez. Canelo was arguably the best p4p in the world. He was moving up 2 weight classes but he was still a 4-1 favourite. Because Kovalev wasn't in his prime and Canelo was (younger and better). Ward was #4 p4p and top 3 LHW. Alvarez was a top 5 LHW according to The Ring and TBRB. If it's my list, I can say that Kovalev beat everyone he faced until he was 36 (1-1 against Ward and Alvarez). You can't say that for many LHWs.


    People here are comparing MSM and Kovalev. Kovalev was never dominated the way MSM was against Qawi. MSM was also stopped by a guy named Eric Winbush in 3 rounds right after the Qawi rematch. 1 fight later, he was stopped by Willie Edwards. These losses came before he turned 30. If MSM's losses don't count after the Qawi rematch, we're saying that he was past his prime at 28 and his prime lasted around 5 years ('77-'82). Then the Canelo and Alvarez fights shouldn't hurt Kovalev's standing either. Kovalev was past his prime and he still avenged one of those losses in dominant fashion. MSM struggled against Murray Sutherland, Vonzell Johnson, Lottie Mwale, Yaqui Lopez, and Jerry Martin as a champion. All of them hurt Saad except Martin. That's 5 of his 8 title defences (all back to back). Kovalev was a more dominant champion than MSM and a better boxer imo. MSM has the better resume but not my a lot if we count his losses (before 30).
     
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yarde wasnt a top ten fighter and he isn't ranked as such now.I dont think Cleverly was top ten ranked either.
    Kovalev 's resume isn't very deep imo.
    His faults have always been the same, all his shots are long he stands too upright and he hasn't a clue about fighting inside.I've always though him a good ,"on top fighter" when things are going his way,though he did show grit against the crude Yarde. Kovalev never proved he was the best of his own era, not his fault Stevenson didn't fight him but it's a fact.
    I think the following175 pounders beat him;
    Rosenbloom
    Dillon
    Berlenbach
    Delaney
    Lewis
    Johnson
    Saad
    Marshall
    Conn
    Loughran
    Moore
    Galindez
    Conteh
    Tunney
    Charles
    Langford
    Fox
    Bivins
    Maxim
    Foster
    Qawi
    Spinks
    Moorer
    Jones Jnr
    Muhammad
    Spinks
    So he would be around 27th/30th on my list.
     
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  7. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    That is not very much; Tua did the same, all by knockout. He had about half as many bouts as him.

    Others fought much bigger opponents but more successful, like Braddock did (a journeyman-champion himself) or Walker and Carpentier.

    Well you prove this over and over again.
     
  8. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    So you can't imagine he had a prevuious career until he was ranked there, before he stopped Ulrich? Actual had he even three to four career, as until Hopkins won he his first 32 professional fights, the got he robbed several times, because he was the underdog (B side) and fought abroad often, like against Gonzalez and Branco (also two of the Woods fights).
    And by the way is this magazine a interesting to read but has not much more importance, as it is subjective and manipulated by the one who owns it, just as the bias of the writers (narrowly all are Americans), which might be influenced by nationalism cause, just as the promoters and other media.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You said Maxim lost over a third of his fights.He had 116 fights and lost 29 ,he would have had to lose 34 plus for that to be the case.He actually lost 29 of them so you are wrong yet again! And as I showed ,he lost 8 of them when he was past 35years old.
    The reason I don't put you on ignore is because I am fascinated to see if you will actually get something right one day! Your attempts to get me banned and your resurrection of a disgusting sexual slur showed what a piece of work you are and left you with a flea in your ear and nothing else between it and the ear on the other side !lol Pathetic Clown!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  10. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    So he lost more than a quarter around 30%...; you are very finely-checked.
    At which age he had that if irrelevant; most in the upper weight-classes are at their peak in their thirties until about 40. How old was Moore as world champion or Tarver and Hopkins?
    By the way was Lesnevich over 35 himself when he lost to Maxim and it was at the bottom end of his career, with 3 defeats out of his last 4 fights.
    While Maxim lost also against middleweight Olson. Just as lost he more often against Walcott than he defeated him.
    And if you inculde the draw, then is it pretty close to a third (with 33 fights).

    The newspaper decision won Patterson vs. Maxim, at age of 19. All 11 boxing writers at ringside had him clearly winning. So this was a robbery most likely.



    Have you ever won any discusion?:dunno
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  11. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Kovalev had more ability than Saad.

    But you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Saad doesn't drown Kovalev late.

    He had intangibles that Kov never possessed, and I don't have confidence in ANY version of Kovalev handling Saad's power.

    Oh BTW, Kovalev never got dominated like Saad did against Qawi cause he never fought anyone as good as Qawi.

    Make no mistake, Qawi was better than Ward, and FAARRRR better than Canelo.
     
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  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    With that light heavyweight era, I view Spinks and Qawi as really having been special; Spinks arguably was the best h2h 175 ever.

    A lot of the others though, like Saad, Conteh and Marvin Johnson, are celebrated more for having fought in a great era than for having posted the results.

    Kovalev would make lots of noise back then even if Spinks would brutally knock him out.
     
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Let’s go with this:
    1. Kovalev gasses out and gets stopped late by Saad while you on the cards (15 round fight).
    2. In the rematch, Kovalev boxes as carefully as possible and wins a decision in a much more boring fight (over 12).
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So the upperweight classes are at their peak until they are about 40 years old? Oh right!LOL
    Why I wonder do so many of them retire in their early to mid 30's?
    For example;
    Berlenbach 32
    Delaney 32
    Loughran 35
    Slattery 30
    Rosenbloom 32
    Olin 31
    Lewis 25
    Lesnevich 34
    Mills 31
    Conn 31
    Pastrano 30
    Torres 33
    Conteh 29
    Rossman 28
    Parlov 32
    Spinks 32
    ps 25% is not equal to," more than 30%,"just thought I'd point that out to you.
     
  15. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Doesn't matter if Kovalev boxes.

    Saad isn't Eledier Alavez.

    Unless Kovalev could channel of the reflexes of a prime Jones, or the chin of James Toney, he'd get caught and KO'd.

    Saad was one of the top 5 punchers in light heavyweight history, and Kov's question was always questionable.
     
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