Sergey Kovalev vs James Toney

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by roughdiamond, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,475
    17,057
    Jul 25, 2015
    175lbs.

    Toney, an ATG but not at his best in this weight class, vs the Russian beast. Both stoic killers. Both habitually self destructive.

    How do the styles clash?
     
    sasto likes this.
  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,702
    8,799
    Jan 6, 2017
    Andre ward, who has very little punching power, absolutely destroyed Kovalev with body shots.

    James Toney, an iron chinned, prolific inside fighter and body puncher with good pop in his punches.

    Kovalev, a guy whose only means of defense against inside fighting is to clinch, wear his trunks high, and cry to the ref. Who had a pretty weak chin but a great jab and right hand.

    I think it's safe to say Toney struggles with the jab for a bit, but eventually gets past it and carves Kovalev up like a cow in a slaughter house. Toney by TKO within 7 rounds.
     
    Big Ukrainian and Man_Machine like this.
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    24,184
    36,857
    Mar 3, 2019
    This is wishful thinking. He couldn't even break down or beat Montell Griffin. He lost to Drake what's his name.

    Toney was absolutely **** at 175.
     
    BCS8 and roughdiamond like this.
  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,702
    8,799
    Jan 6, 2017
    Kovalev was knocked out by Canelo with one punch.

    So that makes two guys who lacked power that destroyed him.
     
    Big Ukrainian likes this.
  5. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,475
    17,057
    Jul 25, 2015
    Ward worked his way back into the first by using clever mauling strategies. Toney didn't do this (mauling and inside fighting are separate) in his style, especially at 175 where, as George mentioned, Toney was at the most lacklustre of his career performances. You make a good point of Toney beating Kov on the inside, but how is Toney, specifically the LHW version, going to get there past the fluid and creative power punching of Kovalev? It is possible Kovalev may severely lower his output, especially with his left cross and inverted 1-2s (2-1's), which would be great weapons here against Toney's form of anticipatory leaning and rolling defence, which is suited to conventional right hands, 1-2's and left hooks. Kovalev was pretty creative with it and it would cause Toney issues imo. Maybe a Middle or Super Middle version would do it skillwise but Toney experienced a drop off at 175lbs. His return to form was at higher weights. I don't think this is an easy match, I think it's a competitive one, which is why I posted it.

    And that rematch was not a prime Kovalev. Sergey got 'Feneched' by the first decision and was never the same. Career wise, Kovalev was very much a front runner in a similar vein and lost quite a bit of his ability / desire after his fall.
     
  6. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

    52,894
    11,798
    Jul 21, 2012
    Toneys feet were too slow to overcome Kovalevs control of range.
     
    red corner and MarkusFlorez99 like this.
  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,702
    8,799
    Jan 6, 2017
    Toney could adapt. You do have a point about Kovalev changing up the pattern with his 2-1's and varying the range and speed, but Toney was a brilliant counterpuncher. He isn't going to just charge in there like a bull attempting to get on the inside, he always takes a moment to measure his opponents rhythm and habits.

    Sure, you can argue Kovalev was past his prime just a few months after the first Ward fight. But his suspect chin and inability to take body shots were always there. If the ref penalizes excessive clinching and Toney does manage to get inside, Kovalev will have some serious problems. Especially if the ref tells him to lower his trunks because that wasn't fooling anyone professional, it was obvious what he was going for.
     
    roughdiamond likes this.
  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,475
    17,057
    Jul 25, 2015
    Well, a point could be that Toney measuring Kovalev would allow Kovalev to dictate his range more effectively to score success with his arsenal. You can't wait on him too much. Kov hates nasty dog fights, close work, mauls etc but Toney was really a clean fighter, clean as it gets on the inside. Ward mauled, used his head, elbows, strength. I'm not even criticising it, since it was the perfect way to slowly shut Sergey down. If Toney measures I can personally see Kovalev feinting with his right shoulder and snapping with his left cross, which he varied very well to the body and would at times suddenly change to a left hook to confuse. Kovalev at his best also had a very underrated fluidity to his feet and overall movement - a consummate ring general. I think a 175lb Toney would very much struggle setting his way up to the inside fight (a 175lb Toney is not winning a battle of jabs here), though he would obviously have success when he gets there (and he would, it is Toney after all).

    But I also think you are right. Toney would adapt. He is too good to fall for just one trick repeatedly. He would land counters (likely the right hand thrown as Kov throws - would be a very successful shot to the ribs I feel, and possibly the left hook over Kov right hands, punching with him is probably key for Toney to win). And of course, inside he would go to work with that right upper, left hook, roll, right overhand combo. The more I think about it, the more I like the match up here.
     
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    24,184
    36,857
    Mar 3, 2019
    Kovalev was a fried drunk by that point, and Canelo doesn't lack power.

    Regardless, Kovalev's record at 175 is far superior to Toney's.
     
  10. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,489
    3,325
    Jul 14, 2009
    But did he really lose these fight? In my opinion no.But Kovalev got stopped twice. I would favour an in shape Toney.Kovalev is not a mover and his power won’t bother Toney that much. Toney would have some problems getting inside.But then again Canelo kicked Kivalev’s ass
     
  11. Chuck Norris

    Chuck Norris Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    18,740
    23,751
    Aug 31, 2016
  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,702
    8,799
    Jan 6, 2017
    Canelo had so many guys at 154 go the distance with him and he couldn't put a dent in them. He definitely lacks power.

    The recent saunders stoppage was a freak accident, not some brutal highlight reel KO. Many of Canelo's best opponents go the distance with him or remain on their feet even if they get stopped.

    Kovalev always had a bad chin. He was not a fried drunk when feather fisted ward broke him down like a geometry problem.
     
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

    16,028
    8,316
    Apr 3, 2012
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    24,184
    36,857
    Mar 3, 2019
    Canelo cuts loads of weight to get down to 154, which obviously effected his power and stamina. This, combined with steroids, has obviously had a massive effect on his power. Canelo also produced some excellent KOs at 154/155. The only fighter which is bad who he failed to stop at 154/155 is Cotto. Furthermore, Canelo was very young when he was consistently competing at 154, and left the division with a KO of a proven chin and very touch Scouser. Since moving up past middleweight, he's had plenty of power and has managed to make all these big punchers avoid sitting down on their shots.

    The stoppage of Saunders isn't an anomaly when Canelo has produced massive knockouts, and ruptured Smith's bicep with a punch just two fights earlier.

    Kovalev's chin has declined massively. This is obvious. Look at him vs Pascal, then look at him in the Ward rematch. Actually, look at how he takes Ward's shots in the first fight to the second. Kovalev's lack of motivation has played a massive part in his decreasing durability. Since losing to Ward, he's also had to struggle with making weight. Getting older and living like a complete, irresponsible alchy has took his legs away from him. It's clear if you watch him from back then and more recently, side-by-side.

    Furthermore, Drake Thadzi, and Montell Griffin, beat Toney at LHW. Yet Kovalev can't? Ridiculous.
     
  15. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 52-0 banned Full Member

    2,258
    2,212
    Sep 22, 2021
    Kovalev would not know what to do with James.

    He gets fed counters all night for my money.