Sergio Martinez... ATG?

Yes, well said. However, I personally think that we, as fight fans, should endeavour to 'correct' for ducking effects when we rank fighters. Obviously there's a limit to what's plausible and it will never be the same thing as KO'ing the ducking fighter, but ducking should be considered IMHO.

I'd say Martinez just makes the HOF (remember, the criteria for HOF are not what they used to be). Clearly not an ATG though.

 

But shouldn't HOF'ers also be considered ATG's? I'm just saying. I'm thinking about the Baseball HOF...everyone in it is an ATG. I think that if you're not an ATG you shouldn't be in the HOF.

I guess we need a scientific, rational definition of both terms.

 

I actually agree with you.

But as it has happened, most people consider 'HOF' quite a way below 'ATG' as some questionable names have entered the HOF.

 

He deserved better treatment than what he got , like the Clintron fight and the WBC taking their belt off him to give to JCC .
Worst of all was Cotto earning 7m to take away his belt while Sergio got a measly 1.5m in comparsion. Disgrace.

Prime Martinez sleeps Cotto within 8 rounds.

 

He's a lock for HOF, I don't consider him great however.

 

I'm sure most of you have your own criteria of what constitute ATG, great and HOF.
For me, I rank them as per above.
ATG is very exclusive and mainly based on career accomplishment and not h2h. If I were to put a rank, it will be for fighters in the top 100, again this list will be subjective. With so many weight classes in boxing, you would probably need to be ranked top 5 or at least top 10 in your division all time list.
A Great will be slightly below that, for fighters just outside top 100 and hovering around bottom 10 in the division all time list.
A HOF that is neither great nor ATG would be just good fighters that manage to grab a title here and there and participate in great fights.
Martinez for me is just a good fighter, his accomplishment doesn't warrant all time comparison. I'm not sure he is a HOF just from his win over Pavlik. But with such a low bar, I think he might get in.

 

I guess "ATG" now means "All time good".

 

THat's a good attempt at ordering both terms in a hierarchy. Yeah, I suppose ATG is above HOF.

 

This guy at his peak was so fun to watch. He had such an unusual style, he kept his hands down all the time and had deceptively good footwork and terrific counterpunching ability. His performances against Williams, Pavlik and Dzinziruk were probably his best wins and all happened during his peak (which was a bit later than most pro fighters.)

If he was able to get the bigger fights a bit earlier in his career and had a longer reign as a JMW and especially MW champion, than he could have a case. At his best, he was arguably the second or third best fighter pound for pound, and he held that status for a couple years.

 

Solid overall CV but swerved his biggest threats and for good reason, he only hit his peak when most fighters are hanging em up.
That said....Id vote for him into the HOF if I had a vote.
ATG MW.....maybe top 30.

 

I dont count anything against him that happened after he tore up his knees. Had that not happened the 154lb-160lb landscape looks totally different. Sergio was sensational. ATG? No! HOF? Problably.

 

He tried stepping up earlier, and Mr Concreto beat him down like Debo.

 

HBO woulda give him 2 mil themselves to let GGG KO him in a rd.
But Martinez fancied his chances vs Cotto since he'd been thoroughly outboxed by let slick fighters in Trout and May.