Sergio martinez is NOT the lineal middleweight champion anymore.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by christo, May 22, 2013.


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  1. larryx2012

    larryx2012 I AM BETTER THEN YOU Full Member

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    He has to lose or retire to lose the Lineal title
     
    larryx2012, May 22, 2013
    larryx2012, May 22, 2013
    #31
  2. Kevin Jesus

    Kevin Jesus Active Member Full Member

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    Where did you get that Chavez Jr was not top 5? He had just come off beating Rubio and destroying Andy Lee. Not a fan of JCC Jr or Martinez by any stretch but coming off the Rubio win and Lee TKO he was obviously one of the top 5 best at MW, even if The Ring didn't think so, which it did anyway. Macklin was top 5. Murray should have been top 5 since he should have beaten Sturm.

    Even if you are lost or are just unacknowledged, JCC Jr is exactly #5 at MW as we speak, despite losing his last fight.
     
    Kevin Jesus, May 22, 2013
    Kevin Jesus, May 22, 2013
    #32
  3. Actualboxingfan

    Actualboxingfan Guest

    Quilin and Geale would both have to stop being scared little bitches and quit running from GGG for that to happen. Only one guy clearly wants to fight for the other belts.
     
    Actualboxingfan, May 22, 2013
    Actualboxingfan, May 22, 2013
    #33
  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Just as a small point on just how stupid this thread is.

    Christo says Martinez hasn't dealt with the top 5 guys, and says the Chavez wasn't top 5?

    Chavez IS top 5 right now :lol: He was like 2nd or 3rd when Martinez fought him :patsch

    Martinez has wins over 4 of the rings top 10 middleweights right now, let alone their ranking at the time he beat them.


    This thread is revisionist history at its worst.
     
    kirk, May 22, 2013
    kirk, May 22, 2013
    #34
  5. christo

    christo Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    only by casual fans like you kiddo
     
    christo, May 22, 2013
    christo, May 22, 2013
    #35
  6. christo

    christo Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Damn Kirk, you used to be a respected and knowledgeable poster.
    I think the zombies on here have dumbed you down. Chavez Jr
    was NOT a top 5 middleweight before he fought Sergio. Beating
    clumsy rubio and chinny Lee, who Brian ****ing Vera stopped, doesn't
    warrant being a top 5 guy in a packed division like 160. If chavez is
    rated top 5 now it's all based on his 12th round against the "champ"
    and the fact that he's Julio cesar chavez' kid and the RING is owned
    by a fellow mexican. When i said he wasn't a top 5 middle, i meant
    that real boxing fans, which i thought you were, wouldn't rate him
    that high. The top guys at 160 are deservedly GGG, Geale, and Quillen
    in that order and Serg won't go near either of them. That's not a
    RING champ.
     
    christo, May 22, 2013
    christo, May 22, 2013
    #36
  7. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again genius, Geale and Quillin turned down multiple offers to fight Martinez. At the time Martinez fought Chavez, Quillin's best wins were against blown up and inactive Winky and Craig McEwan (who chinny Lee stopped). Golovkin meanwhile has defeated one legit middleweight in all this time period, and indeed, the only reason he's well ranked already is because of how shallow the division is, not because of how "packed" it's been.

    I do enjoy the hilarious shift from Ring ratings to "real boxing fans" after you've been utterly disproven about every single assertion you've made about The Ring. Let me guess also: the sole criterion for being a "real boxing fan" is agreeing with your moronic ass?
     
    purephase, May 22, 2013
    purephase, May 22, 2013
    #37
  8. christo

    christo Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I can't help but to assume you are a teenaged british 'chav'. A term
    likened to what we would refer to here in the states as a ghetto wanna
    be thug. It's a shame that britian has been reduced to a country full of
    lamebrains and halfwits. I used to respect britons but don't anymore.
     
    christo, May 22, 2013
    christo, May 22, 2013
    #38
  9. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Christo... stop.

    You are trying to spin a situation you are either clearly wrong in, or have so mixed up your opening post between standards and obligations of a champion (holding Martinez to the Ring Champion standard, yet you disregard their ranking of the fighters at the time he fought them lol)

    Your whole opening post is about him being the RING champion, and in order to be the RING champ you have to defend it against top 5 guys. That is your entire premise to this thread.

    Youre going to sit and center your entire argument on how the Ring champ has to fight top guys, and then disregard their rankings? lol...

    as for the ring being owned by a Mexican, again that's laughable. Chavez is one of top ranks biggest names above welterweight, and youre trying to spin it that the Ring favors Jr? lol... Christo, that is absurd. GBP vs Top Rank is one of the biggest fueds in boxing, but you think they are going to push JR because hes Mexican and son of Julio Cezar Chavez? Its just laughable.

    And yes,
    Chavez Jr was ranked in the top 5 by Ring magazine when he fought Sergio
    Macklin was ranked in the top 5 by Ring magazine when he fought Sergio

    that is irrefutable, and anyone trying to argue that point looks totally uninformed to those who know they were.



    * If youre going to talk about the Ring belt, and being the Ring champion, and being stripped of its title, ect, ect and how in order to be the Ring champ you have to fight the top contenders, then you should probably go by the very same belts rankings :lol:

    This content is protected


    But if you were totally disregarding the Ring belt, and their rankings, then at least I would see where you are coming from and could agree with you on that. But instead, the Ring is all youre talking about in your post, and is the standard to which you are holding Martinez (even talking about how he should be stripped if he doesn't fight the top guys)....

    So you wanna talk about him being the Ring champ and how he hasn't fought top contenders to remain so, yet don't want to use their rankings as to who these top contenders are. That's the way I see it.

    This content is protected


    Though I would still argue that Macklin and JR were around the 5th best guys in the division when Martinez fought them.
     
    kirk, May 22, 2013
    kirk, May 22, 2013
    #39
  10. Kevin Jesus

    Kevin Jesus Active Member Full Member

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    Ethered.takentoschool.owned.edu
     
    Kevin Jesus, May 22, 2013
    Kevin Jesus, May 22, 2013
    #40
  11. Son of Gaul

    Son of Gaul Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're being a bit hard on Sergio here. I''m pretty sure that Jr. and Macklin were both in the top 5 when he fought them.
     
    Son of Gaul, May 22, 2013
    Son of Gaul, May 22, 2013
    #41
  12. christo

    christo Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Kirk, C'mon man. I guess you read my thread in the format that suited your thinking so i'll agree to disagree. I'll say it like this and this is what I meant
    when i wrote this. Sergio is NOT fighting the type fights becoming of a,
    **** the RING belt, undisputed champ. To only go after the easiest and
    low risk fights and cherry puck thru the top 10 or 5 depending on there
    ticket sales:p doesn't jive with the whole purpose of being the consensus
    top guy at 160lbs. you like that better?

    Oh, and don't ever underestimate the power of the raza. GBP and
    top rank may hate each other but mexican heritage supercedes all
    that, so if a white guy named howard who was an avid boxing fan
    and called a spade a spade owned the RING, Jr wouldn't have ever
    been in the top 5. Simply because there are more than 5 middles who
    are better and deserve to be rated higher. OK?
     
    christo, May 22, 2013
    christo, May 22, 2013
    #42
  13. christo

    christo Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Shut up little boy. 2 grown-ups were talking.
     
    christo, May 22, 2013
    christo, May 22, 2013
    #43
  14. jonbonez152

    jonbonez152 EASTSIDEBOXING KING Full Member

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    :patsch Martinez, GGG, Geale, and Quillin are the only 4 arguably better then JCC jr. Making him 5. Also out of those 4 it would be some what of a toss up, if an in shape younger looking Sergio comes back he will beat any of them, probably similarly as bad as chavez. You can never count Geale out. GGG and Quillin are looking exceptional right now so of course they could possibly be the best. They need to fight to really find out.
     
    jonbonez152, May 22, 2013
    jonbonez152, May 22, 2013
    #44
  15. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Fair enough I wont argue with what someone believe were and weren't the true top 5 guys at the time Serg was fighting these dudes (though I would still be interested to know 5 fighters above Jr and Macklin at the time they fought Martinez. Not now, a year later, but when the fights were signed. I wouldn't argue that they weren't but Id like to see the list)

    but ya, I could totally get ones point of view on that and wouldn't argue it.

    But if that's the case, you shouldn't have centered almost your entire post around the Ring belt, and that he should be stripped of it. If the Ring belt means **** all, then theres really no need to talk about how he should be stripped of it.... because going by their standards, he shouldn't.

    Your post should have just been about how Martinez should no longer be considered the undisputed champion of the division because he hasn't fought the true top contenders, despite their organizational rankings.

    Instead the entire post almost is about the Ring belt.

    Also,
    Regardless of everything, he will always be the lineal champion, until beaten. That doesn't change just because a guy doesn't fight the best. That is not something you can lose, unless you are beaten. That's not my opinion but the very nature of what being the lineal champion is.

    What changes is being the undisputed champion. When Martinez beat Pavlik he was the linear, undisputed middleweight champion.

    The undisputed champion (being THE champ) is whats debatable. Martinez being the lineal champion is a non debatable fact, regardless of his opposition.

    Anyways, I see now what you were getting at in your opening post... and wont argue further as I can at least see why you think that.
     
    kirk, May 22, 2013
    kirk, May 22, 2013
    #45
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