Serious question about the Molina stoppage.

In addition to the No Contest ruling, Team Molina will petition the WBC for an immediate rematch. Luis DeCubas, Molina’s advisor stated, “I’m sure Golden Boy Promotions (Kirkland’s promoter) will agree with me that an immediate rematch is warranted. I remember their great concern for the improper actions of ringsiders after Amir Khan lost to Lamont Peterson, so watching the tape and seeing the obvious influence on the situation exerted by their matchmaker Eric Gomez, who was standing behind the ringside officials shouting at them to disqualify Molina… they must be mortified by his actions and in search of an immediate rectification.”

 

This was a good stopage. Lack of respect for the ref.
upon replay it is clear how dumb Molina's corner behaved and why the ref took offense.
he was counting in their corner. I mean come on.

 

Let's start with your last point first.

Evidently, you have a reading comprehension problem.

I have already stated that I couldn't give a flying **** which guy came out on top here. Neither one is an elite fighter.

One is a glass-jawed disaster waiting to get KO'd as soon as he gets properly tagged. And the other makes John Ruiz look like a pure boxer.



Now to the event in question.


You stated "...the round is not over until the ref calls the round over."


Texas Rules state:

When a round ends before a knocked-down fighter rises, the bell is not sounded, and the count goes on. If the contestant rises before the count of ten, the bell will sound and the round is over.

In this case, the bell sounded before Molina hit the floor. And given that it's not supposed to sound if a count is underway, that was more than enough justification for the cornerman to believe the round was over.

But given that it sounded BEFORE Molina hit the canvas, it was legit for the ref to begin counting. However, in this case, the Texas rule was clear. The round ended as soon as Molina was up on his feet. And, as I mentioned already, the ref did not decide to issue the DQ.

You haven't stated why he continued with the count and sent Kirkland to his corner if the fight was over.

Understandable, as the ref did not think it was over until he had his mind changed by interference from outside the ring.

That much is clear to any reasonable observer as of now, and will be made clear to all but the most obstinate and argumentative, when the decision is overturned and the fight is declared a NO-CONTEST.

 

Hmm, they were fighting under the ABC rules.


Sour grapes.....no matter how you spin it......


Keith

 

Reading comprehension problems......no matter how you spin it......

 

it was a good fight over all but the officials had one thing in mind how to make the texas boy win
not to mention kirkland is a golden boy fighter and they were paying the bills that nite

 

***** stoppage by a ref who should not have been in the ring. Texas should not host fights either.

 

Texas Commission Rule 61.41(K)(6) states:

When a round ends before a contestant who was knocked down rises, the bell shall not ring, and the count shall continue. If the contestant rises before the count of ten, the bell shall ring ending the round.

IF the Texas rule applies, then the referee made an error and should not have disqualified Molina. The cornerman did not enter the ring until Molina had risen and the bell had already rung. Therefore, the round was already over and the count should have ceased upon his rising and the cornerman was entitled to enter and Molina should have been allowed to return to his corner and the bout continued after the one-minute rest.

I spoke with Susan Stanford today from the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, and she said that Texas rules did apply.

She said Dick Cole is the Manager of Combative Sports, that he and Greg Alvarez were there.

She said it was Schorle's decision to dq, not anyone else.

However, there was no explanation about why Schorle had not immediately dq'd Molina when the corner entered. Instead, he got the corner out, rather than dq'ing right then and there. He then continued the count. He did not waive the bout off after the count either. He then had the boxers return to their corners. It looks odd that he did not announce a dq until after he went over to the ropes and spoke with someone at ringside.

She said inspectors monitored the corners, but could not explain why they allowed Molina's cornerman to enter if it was allegedly improper. I would postulate that they allowed him to enter because it was perfectly legal to enter at that point.

She said that she has not seen or received any protest regarding the bout result from Molina's camp.

Surprisingly, she also flatly contradicted HBO's account of the urine issue. She said Kirkland provided a urine sample both before and after the bout.

She also said that the officials are recommended by the WBC, subject to Texas approval. Also, each fighter's camp has the ability to object to the referee or any of the judges. She said that not since 2008, when she started working there, has any objection ever been made to any referee or judge appointed to a bout held in Texas.


ABC rules: http://www.abcboxing.com/documents/ABC_REFEREE_GUIDELINES.pdf

11. CORNER STOPPING THE BOUT

It is strongly recommended that if a Chief Second wants to stop the bout, he or she is to inform the
Inspector who will in turn inform the Referee. Entering the ring during a count or the bout and interfering
will subject the corner’s boxer to a loss by DISQUALIFICATION.

It is recommended that no one throws anything into the ring. If the Chief Second wants the bout stopped
and the Referee is not stopping it, simply inform the Inspector.

12. MANDATORY EIGHT COUNT

The Referee will administer mandatory eight count after all legal knockdowns.
At his or her discretion, the Referee may terminate the count if the boxer is in need of medical attention.

22. BOXER DOWN AFTER THE BELL

The round ends when the bell rings to end the round.

In the event that legal blows during the round negatively affect a boxer, and he or she goes down after the
bell has sounded to end the round, the Referee will consider that the round is over and that the one (1)
minute rest period has begun.

The Referee may then allow the boxer’s corner to assist him or her, and or summon the Ringside
Physician to evaluate the boxer.

23. KNOCKDOWNS AT THE BELL

The bell to end the round should not be sounded by the Timekeeper during a count. In the event that a
knockdown occurs at the end of the round and the bell rings, the Referee will disregard the sounding of the
bell and continue his mandatory count.

The Timekeeper is to ring the bell after the count and the Referee’s evaluation. The boxers are to receive a
full one-minute rest period immediately after these situations.

26. BLOWS AT OR AFTER THE BELL
A blow that strikes a boxer concurrent with the sounding of the bell is deemed to be a legal blow.

40. DISQUALIFICATION
A boxer will lose by DISQUALIFICATION when he or she has:
fouled and caused harm to their opponent
continually refused to follow the rules
continually disobeyed the Referee


WBC rule 15 lists 29 fouls, of which foul #29 states, “During a round, a boxer’s seconds entering the ring or stepping on the ring apron.” Said list of fouls are not grounds for automatic or mandatory disqualification as announced by Michael Buffer, but “may be cause for penalty or disqualification.” Rule 12 states, “The bell will not save a knocked down boxer in any round.” Rule 11 states, “There will be a mandatory 8 count after a knockdown.”

 

Just spoke with Ms. Stanford. She said that there is a mandatory 8 count even at the end of the round, and that by entering the ring before the count, the cornerman broke the rule. However, she had no answer or explanation for how that makes sense given the specific Texas rule that says that the count continues until the boxer rises, and that once the boxer rises the bell shall ring ending the round.

 

Because they weren't using Texas rules but the unified rules? How do people keep mixing these together and thinking it makes sense somehow? atsch

 

She said they were using Texas rules, but would not admit that the referee violated the Texas rule.

Actually, under the ABC rules, there never should have been a count at all, because the bell rang before Molina was down. Therefore, under ABC rule 22, the round was over and the corner was entitled to enter immediately. Under Texas rules, the round was over as soon as the fighter rose from the knockdown. Therefore, once Molina rose at three, the corner was entitled to enter.

It is clear to me that both Schorle and Texas have chosen to ignore both the ABC and the Texas rules. Why, I have no idea. They would look better to simply admit the mistake, change it to a no decision, and move on. By backing the wrong decision and not honoring the rules, and actually trying to ignore and argue away the rules, they just make themselves look worse, as if they have a vested interest in having Kirkland win. That is when it looks really bad.