Serious responses only, where does AJ rank if he beats Wilder?

Wilder has a light resume but he is unbeaten and a strap holder, so it would be a big win on some levels.

 

Is there any HW in history that beat as good a calibre of fighters after 21 fights as Joshua?

 

Parker isn't good. I thought he lost to Ruiz Jr and the Takam fight was close. Wlad was 41 years old. Wilder has great power, but not a lot else.

 

I disagree. Years are overrated. It's about quality of wins.

 

ATG status is based on your career, not just your first 21 fights. So like I said previously it's possible he could end up there, but adding Wilder to that absolutely does not crack top 10. For me, anyway.

 

Good point. When he beat Martin he had no other option than to step up but how many HWs in history have been fast tracked in the same way. It's unfortunate that the pool of top contenders is so shallow atm, if he beats wilder and Fury who else would there be to build a meaningful legacy with.

 

I’ll place him when he’s retired. He’s certainly on a good trajectory, I’ll say that.

The problem that he has at the moment is that we love to romanticise about past eras, and they’ll always be an era in all sports, where, for whatever reason, it was labelled as the golden era, and fans immortalise the best of that era to a standard that is perhaps not real.

That’s what he’s competing with (and anyone else that wants to push their way up the ATG list). It’s not just about how good he is, he’ll be judged on the time he was fighting.

Boxing’s a funny sport; should a heavyweight have 40 fights, and retire undefeated, it would be great, but should that same guy fight the same 40 opponents, but lose 4 of them, only to become champion again, after each loss, his place in boxing history would be stronger (in my opinion). Adversity is a powerful thing, and so far it’s all been rosy in the Park for Joshua.

 

You said he hasn't beaten the right calibre of fighter frequently enough, just noting that his resume is probably superior after 21 fights than any HW in history. Not debating his ATG status.

 

Joshua has a good 10 years ahead of him. Anything can happen in that time. There are plenty of prospects (and even kids today) that could amount to something in that time.

Wlad and to a lesser extent Lennox built their ATG careers against decent but not great opposition. Tyson similarly lacked that marquee win.

You could argue that Wilder (and conversely Joshua for Wilder) would be a greater single win at heavyweight than anything in the modern era.

 

Poor wording on my part, I meant more longevity. For 21 fights, it is a good resume.

 

a atg top 10 are you ****ing ok?

 

In that case, he'd creep into the top 20 heavyweights all time, but nothing more than that. Still quite a bit to do to get into the top 10. Problem is I don't know if the opponents are gonna be there for him to ever make it.

Klitschko and Wilder aren't enough, he'd need another at least one other potential future hall of famer on his record, maybe Tyson Fury is it, maybe some of the upcoming young talent will be it. But I'm not so sure

 

Lewis lost to Mccall and Rahman ok he avenged those defeats but he still lost. Ali was gifted wins against Norton and was also beaten. Both are still regarded as top ten atg's.

I don't have Joshua as top ten atg either if he beats wilder.

 

I assume we are talking in terms of greatness / achievements, instead of a H2H sense.

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
Wladimir Klitschko
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Lennox Lewis
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Evander Holyfield

All greater than Joshua in an ATG sense, as of now … and I missed a few names no doubt. Joshua has to dominate for a while to ascend the ATG rankings.

 

'IF'
is a long way to go.
First he has to agree to actually fight Wilder.