Seriously now.. People overrating Roberto duran

People tend to glom onto the fighters who were dominant when they fell in love wiht the game.

When it comes to heavyweights, my pops was a Floyd Patterson man thorugh and through. I’m a Larry Holmes guy. My youngest brother is more of a Mike Tyson guy.

So I’m also a Roberto Duran guy. I like Mayweather and think he tends to get unreasonably trashed and underrated because he made a lot of keyboard warriors cry beating their boys, but I do think Duran takes him at 135 over 15 rounds ... but PBF is not ‘easy’ for anyone. More of a ridiculously difficult puzzle than a threat to do major damage, but no way is he an easy fight.

 

That is where I differ with most people on here. He does not have the wins over fellow greats to warrant this. What gets him there? Beating Ray in 1980? Well then where is Ray rated. Ray came back and beat Duran easily 2 more times and also beat Hearns, Benitez and Hagler. Duran lost to all the legitimately greats fighters he ever fought. This is a fact.

 

the Duran competition at lightweight being average is accurate, which is why I wonder how he can be the best ever or close to it. I never said he was overrated to the point he was not great. he is great, I just meant how great? Best ever or top 10, I think he needs more wins over greats. If not winning, yes he had the best resume of most fighters ever with Hearns,Leonard,Hagler,Benitez,Cuevas,Barkley. DeJesus, Buchanan. etc.

 

You've been beating this same tired old drum for 9+ years now with zero change of perspective or reasonable insight. I'll pass thanks.

 

Which actually goes in line with another thread which was asking about opinions and how we from them and do they change. I don't think many people at my age are going to change much. I don't blame you for saying this. I will not change my opinion at all..

 

Absolutely beating sugar ray leonard. Anyone beat a prime SRL at 147 is a special win. What makes it possibly the best win of all time is the fact Duran was naturally a 135lber moving up! I mean it’s Leonard, name me a fighter whose displayed more clutchness in ring history than that guy? Name me a guy who had higher quality performances than that guy? Leonard is probably a top 10 ATG p4p himself


What Duran did above 135 is all gravy. He accomplished enough at 130-135 with wins over fellow ATGs and clearing out a very difficult division. As well as beating numerous world champions at 140 147 154 and 160

 

That is just it, you have to mention one fight and ignore all the rest, even the fights he fought in rematch and rubbermatch to Ray. A lot of ignoring and believing excuses, and you are saying that one fight is all Duran has to be rated 1-10 ATG? or near that? The circumstances do not make it a great win if you talk about Ray vs. Duran in the first fight.. Ray was not in his prime. he was still before it and fighting Duran's fight because he was rattled Duran insulted Juanita proves this. And the way he easily beat Duran in the rematch and Rubbermatch shows that if he fights his fight he wins easily. as well as the way Benitez beat Duran a year after Ray beat him in the rematch. And Ray fighting Duran's fight and in Duran's range and giving Duran what he wanted, Duran still could not stop him. So. Best win ever? No.. Not close. If he beat the Ray of 1982 after Ray beat Hearns, that would have been a great win and if he knocked him out also... But he wouldn't have beaten Ray then. I think Ray beats Duran in 1982 and completely knocks him out in the late rounds. Ray beat Duran twice and easily those 2 times. So yes Ray was a great fighter who beat fellow legends Hearns. Duran,Benitez,Hagler. Ray is top 10.. I think so. yes. But he beat many great fighters, which to me is the key for being at that level.

 

as for lightweight? I agree with what someone said earlier. It was a rather average reign. Buchanan and DeJesus were good, but not ATG fighters. He beat numerous guys at other weights, but I still rate him top 30.. I just don't see top 1-10 which to me warrants beating fellow greats.

 

That statement caught me off guard, but after I think about it for a minute you're probably right. And oddly enough one of the few other names that comes to mind is Leonard. (Monzon and Arguello aren't alive are they?...)

 

For one, it’s a big fight. I vote it one of the biggest wins in ring history. A win over a prime sugar ray Leonard while up 2 weight classes from his peak weight is astonishing and unmatched. Name me five wins in ring history better than beating a prime sugar ray Leonard while bumping up two weight classes?

Ray not in his prime? I disageee

1. 27 fights into his pro career after an extensive amateur career

2. Duran beat him sandwiched between Leonard’s signature victories over Benitez and Hearns.

“Leonard beat him in rematches”

Well the third fight took Place when Duran was nearing 40 so we’ll throw that one out. The 2nd fight Leonard won, a case can be made Duran was not in the same physical shape he was in for the Montreal fight. Even if you don’t buy that excuse, how does a loss to a prime SRL up two weight classes hurt his legacy?

Duran lost just two times prior to his 30th birthday, to ATGs Dejesus and Leonard. Dejesus was twice avenged by knockout, and Duran split with Leonard. All those “bad” losses you mention took place when Duran was in his 30s and typically up 3-4 weight classes from his peak fighting weight of 135lb

Duran beat many great fighters as well.

- Ken Buchanan- one of the best pure boxers of the 70s. A top 10 lightweight of all time

Esteban Dejesus- a great fighter, good champion. Top 15-20 lightweight of all time

Ernesto Marcel- An ATG featherweight champion. Defeated Alexis Arguello


Duran also fought and dominated other world champions like mamby, ishimatsu, kobayashi, moore, Cuevas, palomino. He also dominated good contenders at 135 like Vilomar Fernandez whom defeated Alexis arguello

At age 37 he won the middle weight title by beating Barkley, fresh off a knockout over hearns

 

without being in that fab four group, what he did was good, but not near great. So does the fab four group elevate him to top 1-10.. That is my point. I already think he is great. The Leonard fight losing 2 times after the first win, shows to me that he could have beaten him in the first fight. Had he fought his fight. It is very clear a Leonard who boxes beats any Duran. Rather easily also.

 

Both dead mate. Arguello shot himself in 2009 and Monzon died in a car crash in 95.

Here's some further reading on the living fighter debate -

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/who-is-the-greatest-living-boxer.593024/

 

I don't think Duran is overrated, but Mayweather is still hideously underrated by some. But as you say, that will change over time.

 

I don't know. Usually a fighter goes down in ranking rather than up since time tends to water down ratings, and Duran had a popularity and fighting spirit, which made people like him and remember him. Floyd will be remembered, but not for fighting spirit, more for his attitude and handpicking guys.

 

How is DeJesus an ATG?