Seriously now.. People overrating Roberto duran

Any fighter in history given the godlike accolades some give Duran would have to be called overrated. By that, I am not trying to suggest he wasn't a great fighter, even "ATG" status, or whatever the h/ll that means. He all that and perhaps more. A real force of nature in his time that could conceivably beat anyone at 135 and on a real good day maybe at 147 too. I'm just suggesting that he was also human and not impervious, a fact that seems to get lost a lot of the time in the dreamy remembrance of the throngs of worshippers.

 

Well put!

 

Pacman always fought better guys and more prime guys than Floyd. He is more of a warrior. They fought some of the same guys, but when Manny fought them they were better in my mind and better fights also, and Manny took on Margarito something Floyd would not have done. I agree with you on the 5 years too late. As for Floyd, I think he was an expert on when to fight specific guys. He did this with his whole career, what Ray Leonard did with Hagler and the guys after Hagler. But Ray got more than he bargained for with Lalonde and the Hearns rematch.

 

If you beat someone easily, yes, I can say a great number of things most times. Sometimes it may not say what it might in other circumstances, but in all cases it says a lot. Many people gave Floyd a much better fight than Canelo did. Shoot, most fighters did, which again is the point. I'm not sure Canelo won a single round of that fight, nor am I sure he even he won a minute of any round. An ancient dinosaur in Mosely almost put him down for the first time. Cotto had his moments. Hoya had his moments. Castillo had his moments. Hatton had his moments. Canelo had no moments, which is the point. If one calls that ready, I don't ever want to be ready.

 

That’s a really good post and sums up the dilemma(s) quite nicely.


I’d concur with your point about Mayweather being a defensive boxer:- While it has failed to capture the imagination of many, in his time, the fact he consistently made defense the foundation for his manner of victory - and did so to great effect - will quite likely be a point of continued interest in decades to come.

 

You keep saying comfortable at the weight and I'm not sure you even know what that means. If you aren't training properly, and you can't make the weight you're champion at, so you need to take non-title fights just to fight, how is that a comfortable weight. You're clearly not in optimal condition, or you would be defending your LW crown right? He wasn't. That isn't comfortable at the weight, that is being out of shape. It's like saying Duran was comfortable at 190, just because, well, he weighed 190. That doesn't mean it's comfortable nor optimal. You act like he fought at 154 in 1978 because he was gearing up to move to 154, which again, isn't close to the truth. He was still considering fighting at 140, and then the next logical move was 147, which is where he ended up going. There was nothing in the cards for 154 at that time, so if there was nothing in the cards for 154 at the time, then he clearly was preparing for a big fight there at 154, which he wasn't. He was first moving to 147, which is exactly what he did.

Just because you continue to win titles past your prime, doesn't mean you're prime. Are you really this slow? Only an idiot would mention Duran fighting into his 50's as proof he wasn't over the hill at 40. Imagine this, "No, he wasn't past his prime when he was 40, I mean, he still fought for a decade afterwards, so how could he be past his prime"..... LMAO. Anybody would look at that sentence at literally laugh at you. Just because you continually fight past your prime, doesn't mean you're prime. If you don't when to hang them up, that is all that it means, you don't know when to hang them up. It doesn't mean you're still a force and just as good as ever. This is the ******ation I'm referring to. We've seen this throughout history, sometimes fighters fight for too long and don't know when to let go. Holyfield, Joe Louis, Robinson, Ali etc etc. Just because you continue to fight past your prime, and still happen to win, doesn't mean you're prime. Just because Ali beat spinks, doesn't mean he wasn't already past his prime when fighting Frazier 3. He most certainly was already past it, but he still won. That shows his greatness that he could still win past his best, not what you're trying to make it out to be. Same with Duran, Duran winning well past his best, only proves how great he was, it doesn't prove he was still prime. Holy **** these arguments get worse and worse from you

 

Genuine questions:

What accolades given to Duran would you describe as “godlike” and who has been handing out the same?

 

You wouldnt buy any fighter's excuses lol? You're the one that ALWAYS repeats the same tired excuse over and over again that Leonard fought Duran's fight in their 1st and thats why he lost. Ah I get it. Its YOU making the excuse, not Leonard. And havent you made the excuse that Hearns broke his hand on Marvin's head and didnt try to box him early(which he did in spurts but couldnt keep Hags off of him anyway) which according to you is the reason Tommy got hammered? If you are going to take Duran to task for making excuses, you are correct in doing so. But dont make them yourself for the others as you would be disengenuous to do so.

 

You're 100% right. If Duran's overrated, every fighter is overrated. In which case, who is considered truly great?

 

Mosley had two good punches but was outclassed for the rest of the fight.

Corrales was more badly outclassed. Was he green?

Marquez and Gatti... Ortiz, Berto and Guerrero hardly had a look in either, from memory. Cotto perhaps did a little bit better, but hardly anything in it.

You can (and probably will) nitpick that Marquez was smaller, Gatti shopworn (but still a title holder), and so and so perhaps won a round or two more than Canelo did, but Floyd did have a habit of making fighters look very ordinary. There is no getting way from that.Much more ordinary than they usually did. I don't see Canelo as any real exception.

And that's beside the point, anyhow. If you have the kind of fights Canelo had had - than that means you're not green. End of. Otherwise Linares was green now when he met Loma, for chrissakes. Or Parker when he met Joshua. Almost every one is green by your criteria.

Canelo probably was stylistically unsuited for someone like Floyd, though. Which he seemingly has showed against Trout and Lara also. But he sure wasn't green! So - JUST LET IT GO.

That's the last I'll say to you on the subject, which has been covered enough.

 

Oh Christ man, I don't know. I've been hanging out here since 2004, I read more than my share. Go look them up. They're there.

 

Pac fought worse versions of Mosley and DLH and probably of Hatton too.

The window for Floyd to fight Margarito wasn't very large, and he did fight the guy who beat the **** out of him. Actually he fought two more guys who beat the **** out of Margarito, but he faced Mosley the very fight after he had destroyed a peak Margarito. So there just isn't much to the whole "ducking Margarito" business.

There was a window when Tsuy was definitely the most interesting opponent for him, but that wasn't for very long. And he did take on the guy who beat Kostya.

Concerning Pac, too much time definitely was wasted before they got into the ring and Floyd has to shoulder a fair part of that blame. But it's not like Pac was shot or anything. He was ranked nr 2 p4p I believe and still had a very impressive performance against Bradley in him after he lost to Floyd.

If Floyd had fought Tsuy, Pac in 2010 and Canelo at 154, I think his resume would have been flawless. The rest of the stuff that is held against him is just inane, to be frank.

EDIT: Well, Williams would have been a good opponent just after he beat Margarito. His credentials at WW certainly was superior to Hatton's. But those months was the main window for a fight with Williams, so it's not a prolonged period where Williams was the natural opponent and it's not like Williams was the standout opponent either. You had Cotto and Cintron in the mix as well.

And this is from someone who loves Pac, but isn't too fond of Floyd. But credit to who's credit due.

 

Wow! Bad day?
I guess deciding what ‘godlike accolades’ are is a matter of subjectivity then.
At least, it seems, you weren’t referring to comments made on this thread or the recent Duran vs Mayweather thread, which is why I asked.

 

No harm no foul, I meant no disrespect by that; but I mean you know as well as I do that of all the fighters in history discussed here, few have as divisive an effect as Duran. In some eyes, his excuses are unquestioned and perfectly legit, and he can do no wrong. You see it all the time. I read recently where someone here said he "couldn't be overrated." I don't agree with that at all, but I guess that goes for any fighter. Not just Duran. It's extremely possible to overrate anybody.

 

Fair enough bud, fair enough. We see things different but yet kind of the same. We'll just leave it at that.