Setanta's p4p rankings

Tell you what, pal: when you make it inside the Top 25 in the prediction league, I will pay more attention to your predictions. Your record speaks for itself; so does mine!

...Under the belt? You bet!

 

OH I DEFINATELY HAVE MCLARNIN IN THE TOP 50! More like in the 30s. Same with Dixon (the 40s actually). I just stated I didnt have them as high as MOST do...thats all.

As for Whitaker...I can definately argue my point on this.

Wins over Mayweather, Haugen, Chavez, Ramirez (x2), Nelson, Lomeli, Paez, Pineda, McGirt (x2), Vasquez, Rivera (x2) and Oscar (arguably), among others. Also taking out the obviously terrible decision losses (and draw) you could easily give him credit for going undefeated for 13 years and 43 fights (again, this outlook is subjective, but the decisions vs Ramirez and Chavez were laughable and was not really because of anything Pernell had done).

Held belts in 2 weightclasses...and was a top fighter in both for a long period of time (LW for 7 years, WW for 7 years...6 at the top of the game).

Defensively he is arguably the greatest ever.

Offensively he was a WONDER....yet this area of his game is so underrated and overlooked because of his other traits. He also in his prime rarely lost rounds...dominant to a tee.

Speed, athleticism, relflexes, accuracy, chin, etc....all among the best ever. Plus THAT JAB!!!!!!!

As for H2H, his prime weight was obviously LW...and I think there is really only one fighter that I would say should be favored over him at that weight and that would be Duran, who I have in the top 5....and even then I wouldnt rule out a Whitaker win.

Now obviously this is just a quick breakdown...I mean, I could go more in depth, but that is the "gyst" of my thought process of him being so high.

 

1. Floyd Mayweather

Why: I don't see an argument against him. He's been dominant, moving up in weight, and over time has fought a talented, diverse array of fighters.

2. Joe Calzaghe

Why: Undefefeated, with two of his most significant wins coming since 3/06. Crucially, in his career-defining fight at 168, he clearly beat a very talented, younger man. If you rate Kessler and Lacy lower than I do, or dismiss Joe's longevity against the likes of Reid, et al, you could place him lower.

3. Miguel Cotto

Why: This choice isn't conventional, sure, but bear me out. Cotto survived tough tests at 140 and, to me, has looked more resilient at 147. He did struggle with an aging top-20 PfP Mosley, but did deserve that close win. He also broke down Judah and totally destroyed Quintana, who's a better fighter than Miguel made him look.

4. Manny Pacquiao

Why: Great fighter and deserves this spot, but it isn't a given the way people assert. What if that decision against JMM goes the other way? Can you still argue him No. 1 or No. 2? Pacquiao happened to win that decision, rather than seize command of it, the way Calzaghe and Cotto did in recent big fights. Manny also dropped a decision in 2005 and fought in lackluster fashion several times (Larios, MAB II, Solis) since then. Still, he's a great.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez

Why: He's on a par with Pacquiao, although overall he doesn't have the same dynamic blowout victories. At this moment, though, I think he'll give Manny fits at any weight, and in fact I scored Pac/JMM II in Marquez's favor.

6. Israel Vasquez

Why: I'm not sure we'll ever seen a prime Vasquez again, but the wars he won over a fellow PfP fighter necessitate that he be given this respect. He has been very strong the past couple years and is a clear choice for the top 10, even if he isn't the type to establish separation from elites the way FMJ and JC have.

7. Rafael Marquez

Why: He's another established elite who took 1/3 off Vasquez and probably will pay the price as a result. He's been a great fighter who, only now, is getting the greater mainstream recognition he has deserved all along.

8. Cristian Mijares

Why: A dazzling star at the lower weights, he has outclassed everyone and appears to be getting better. Please direct further inquiries to Amsterdam.

9. Joan Guzman

Why: The stepchild at 130, Guzman is much better than his lack of fan appeal would indicate. He featured in one of the most anticipated B.A.D. cards last year and cruised past Soto. That said, it's time for him to obtain a signature win, or else he'll get older and fade out of memory.

10. Chad Dawson

Why: This may legitimately be argued as a reach, based on his relative lack of resume compared to other PfP contenders, but I slot him here because his career is on the upswing and his recent performances have been dominant. Most expected him to be tested by Harding, but he wasn't. He was the underdog against Adamek but outclassed him for an easy (if briefly scary) points victory. If he looks good against Johnson, arguing against him here becomes much more difficult.


Others:

Bernard Hopkins: Yes, he's a huge name, and he's on a two-fight winning streak. He's also the man who beat the man at 175. To me, however, he hasn't looked good since well before the two Taylor losses/even fights, and neither Winky (aging, bloated) nor Tarver (shot) offered as much resistance as their own names would have indicated. But if he's in the top 10, that's certainly a valid argument. I just don't view him as that caliber of fighter any more.

Kelly Pavlik: In my opinion, Taylor got too much credit for his even fights against Hopkins. He did fight evenly against Winky Wright, though, and Pavlik's KO and one close decision recommend him for the top 10. Still, to me, he's better-suited for the top 15, as he's lacking a win over anyone with sustainable boxing ability and looks vulnerable on defense.

Ivan Calderon: He deserves recognition based on lifetime achievement, but now he's on the downside of his career. For me, top 15.

Nate Campbell: He owns a great win over a guy who a lot of posters thought was top 10, yet he also has been extremely inconsistent. He needs to string together some key performances to crack my list. Here's hoping he still has time.

Mikkel Kessler: I'd be inclined to place him in the top 10, but he needs another good win to prove he hasn't lost confidence or ambition. I do view him as a top-10 talent.

Winky Wright: Inactive, and has looked rusty in recent fights. Getting old.

 

Yeah, well...whatever...

Look, pal, of course I am married to a certain set of ideals: I don't like it when have-been NAMES, legends of the sport, faded and way past it are overrated, just because they used to be the best, a long time ago. I don't like it when very good young, hungry, prime up-and-comers are underrated, just because their name means nothing to the casual fan; I don't like it when match-ups involving hyped up nobodies are overhyped or when fighters fight big past-it names for money, rather than the best out there, whilst claiming they are still p4p No.1 If you don't like these ideals, you can stuff it, because I'm not going to disown them for you or anyone else. I am not going to overrated anyone whether their name was Hopkins, Calzaghe, Bute, Froch, Maccarinelli, Haye or Kessler, but neither am I going to underrate them! I call it as I see it and I have no favourites when it comes to analysis.

About this match-up: Hopkins has a big style advantage on his side. He is a cunning, intelligent operator, a great ring-general with great timing and distance, who can also make it dirty - all this stands against Calzaghe - I am aware of that. But, if Calzaghe performs anything like he did against Kessler - like a p4p Top 3/4 guy would, he will defeat this version of Hopkins, unless Hopkins performs MUCH better than he has in the past two years or so. I don't think he CAN do that.

If you think Calzaghe can win a close decision against Hopkins if the latter wins 5 rounds you are naive! Have you seen the way the American judges score Hopkins' counterpunching? 117-111 against Winky! Ridiculous! Just look at the punchstats, if you cannot be bothered to rewatch the fight. If Calzaghe loses more than 4 rounds, he will definitely lose on the scorecards! Calzaghe KNOWS that. He cannot afford to let Hopkins win more than three rounds or so if he wants to win. However, someone as good as him should be able to overturn the style disadvantage against him and win confortably against this version of Hopkins, unless Hopkins is underrated. If Hopkins was indeed in the top 10 where you have him, according to you, given his style advantage, he should win the majority of the rounds! Cannot you see that your logic is flawed?

As to making things personal between us, let me say this: you call my favourite fighter a poof; be careful! Don't let your personal feelings about my analysis skills interfere with our relashionship and certainly don't let your personal views about me as a person interfere with your appraisal of my analysis skills.

I know you are nostalgic for the good ol' days and as a result you overrate past-it have-beens, so, let me tell you this: I have some of that good old fashioned "nemo me impune lacessit" spirit, whether you like it or not, and I will give back as good as I get, whether you like it or not, buddy!

 

If No. 1 Bute fights and loses, does he drop off and the No. 11 Bute steps into the No. 10 position, or do all the Bute clan fall off the rankings?

 

I love it when someone is willing to defend his position!

 

No, mate...Bute...not even Top 30 p4p...

 

So are we still to fight the establishement - Setanta along with The Ring, Boxing Digest and many other publications, or lets hold our breaths and wait for April 20?

 

I'll wait for the fight. I've convinced everyone that could be convinced that the establishment has it wrong. Not that my campaign against the establishment has influenced my analysis of the fight, of course; it's precisely the other way around!

 

I dont care what you guys think..., here my top10 P4P !

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Miguel Cotto
4. Chris John
5. Tie: Manny Pacquiao / Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Tie: Israel Vasquez / Rafael Marquez
7. Mikkel Kessler
8. Tie: Edwin Valero / Joan Guzman
9. Christian Mijarez
10. Bernard Hopkins

 

1. Wrinky Wight shouldn't be on there.
2. Marquez should be higher than Pacman because he beat him twice.
3. Ricky Hatton lost his last fight. He shouldn't make an appearance.
4. Kelly Pavlik should be higher than Vasquez.