Setting the record straight on Marvin Hart. Apollack's book on Hart

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Sep 10, 2010.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I heard Appolack will be coming out with a Marvin Hart book. This to me is uncharted territory since few historians have ever focused on Hart.

    I wonder what Appolack will come up with? From what I have read, Hart had a good right hand, but his best stuff was his stamina, and gameness.
     
  2. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If he mentions Jack Johnson whooping his ass its accurate.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    In an interview Johnson said Hart whipped him. It has been posted here int he forum before. Johnson simply did not do enough in the 2nd half of the fight.

    I have seen Root fight. He's pretty decent. Hart vs. Root was the first vacant lineal title fight.

    I also want to read about the Burns fight. Hart was a game man, yet he was not aggressive in the Burns match. Did Burns intimidate him?

    Another interesting topic is was there a promoter putting up big money for Jeffries vs. Hart?
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Apollack has received favourable reviews for his previous efforts,I think we can expect a well researched tome, that may shed some light on this often overlooked Champ.
    I dont want to get into a dreary rehash of Hart v Johnson, with Johnson's premier hater ,so lets wait and see if Adam has anything new to say.
     
  5. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I never cared to follow much on Marvie Hart... He was a gap filler between great ex-champs... I've seen some pics of Hart from the early 20th century and he appeared to have an average build and stand-up style...

    I'm not really sure Marvin Hart's life story is really worthy of a hard cover book... Who outside of his immediate list of family relatives are gonna race out to score that book???

    I'd pick it up if I saw it on the shelf and the price was reasonable, but I'd still be leery of its contents...

    MR.BILL
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    And lets see if you will take well researched work, and accept the facts.
     
  7. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Sure. I hope Jack Johnson himself is a good enough source.

    Dec. 1963 article "The case for and against Marvin Hart" reprinted in the June 1989 issue of Boxing Illustrated:

    Johnson, in his autobiography In The Ring And Out says surprisingly little about the fight, and such remarks as he did make are caustic: "The fight was not an auspicious one for me, as Hart got the decision, owing, as Tad, the famous sportswriter says, to the fact that in his excitement the referee pointed to the wrong winner." Later, however, Jack, who never was one to heap accolades on an opponent, did admit: "I don't know of any fighter who was better than me when I was in my prime. But there was one who really beat me... and he beat me good. I'm talking about Marvin Hart."
     
  9. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Johnson said in the post fight interview, “I was robbed. That’s all there is to it.”



    One of the biggest criticisms I run into about Jack Johnson is a question about his near prime loss to Marvin Hart. I wonder how many of those critics have read the actual newspaper reports? If one takes the time to study the newspapers it is clear that had the fight been judged by modern boxing judges Johnson would have gotten the decision. The Mar 29, 1905 San Francisco Chronicle reported “Johnson shows himself strong on points.” The Chronicle also noted “There was a great deal of racial prejudice…Johnson’s clean hitting, his cleverness at blocking, and all his work was allowed to pass with scarcely a murmur, while every blow landed by the white man was cheered to an echo.” The paper also reported “Johnson did more actual fighting in this fight than in all of his other fights in San Francisco put together.” However the referee, Alex Greggains, the sole judge of the contest, gave the fight to the white man on “aggressiveness” no matter how ineffective he had been. Johnson said in the post fight interview, “I was robbed. That’s all there is to it.” Johnson said he “dislocated” his thumb in an early round but still thought he “was the winner at every stage.” The National Police Gazette which was the Ring magazine of that day wrote, April 15 1905, “In the first ten rounds Johnson easily demonstrated his superiority. After that Hart made a better showing but he did not have the better of the going and a draw would have been a present to him.” Johnson deserved to win and would have easily won on points by any modern boxing observers estimation of the fight.
     
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Burns did not intimidate him as much as he enraged him and this was a major factor in the fight.
     
  11. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I expect that it will show that contemporary opinion was fairly evenly divided on the matter of who deserved the nod.
     
  13. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He is the forgotten champ, despite the official win he holds over Jack Johnson and the respectable Jack Root.

    Based on what I've read, he was not taken seriously as a contender for Jim Jeffries. Jeffries was looking to fight against a true big man and Hart did not quite fit the picture, although he was around 6 feet tall and weighed 190 pounds, not a small heavyweight by the era's standards by any means.
     
  14. amhlilhaus

    amhlilhaus Well-Known Member Full Member

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    apollack's work is unmatched. it includes all the angles of the fights he chronicles. it will have everything that needs to be said about hart v johnson.

    he mentions that the more he researched hart the more he liked him, and that may be more to hart than we think.
     
  15. Meast

    Meast New Member Full Member

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