Setting the record straight on Marvin Hart. Apollack's book on Hart

As stated above the San Francisco Call Had the fight even on rounds without scoring the final round which almost everyone scored for Hart so yes I think we can safely assume they judged Hart the winner.

 

Because every white man in 1905 was a rabid racist:roll:

 

That's one for Marvin then.:good

 

Hart wouldn't succeed in modern times.

Even a world class welterweight of today would whoop Marvin's ass.

 

Based on all the footage youve seen of him?

 

No,
somebody wrote a hyped up story on Hart for Boxing Illustrated many years ago with made up quotes and it sucked people in.
P.S. You have google books and google newspaper archives at your disposal so your not helpless to check this stuff yourself.

 

I stand behind my Roy Jones vs South Korean loss in 88 Olympics comparison.
South Korean media rationalizing their guy winning "on aggression"

Jack Johnson was well established as much a hated N word in 05 Barberry coast S.F.

 

I think it is dangerous to presume that Johnson was robbed because of his colour, possible yes, probable? maybe...but it is possible that within the rules and mindset of the time that Hart might have nicked it. We cant say any more for certain.

 

I did not ask you to check it on my behalf ,and I thanked both Matt Donnellon ,and yourself ,for your efforts .

Regarding the so called quotes from B I .
I dont beleive Mendoza was lead anywhere he did not wish to go ,anything derogatory concerning Jack Johnson ,whether true or false is grist to his biased mill.

 

I agree.

Every black man that has lost to a white, brown or yellow up until the election of Barrack Obama is the victim of unabashed racism.

All these results must be reversed immediately!

 

If your under the impression white hatred of Jack Johnson didn't exist prior to Reno 1910 your a freekin ding a ling to put it mildly.

 

I'm under the impression that it's an easy "out" for matters that sometimes can not be known to full accuracy.

 

Anyone under the impression that black hatred in general was universal could also be classed as a ding a ling.

 

The main question in this whole thread should be this: If Johnson was an all time great fighter, what was he doing in a close bout with Marvin Hart at all considering the importance of the match up for Johnson's quest for a championship match ? Why didn't he slice him to pieces and take away any opportunity for a robbery to take place ?

I love Johnson as a historical and sociological figure but really do question either his abilities or his discipline and focus ... I've studied this man for twenty years and have to say at the very least he was a head case ... understandable considering the horrendous challenges he faced but still a head case .. Imagine Teddy Atlas in his corner between rounds screaming at him to fight ?

 

People have been studying Johnson for nigh on 50 years and still haven't come up with the answer to his behaviour .
He could be charming,and courteous,boorish and rude , generous and free spending,parsimonious,and insensitive , he was, in short, an enigma.


People point to Ross and Kaufmann making decent showings against him ,he carried them. O Brien disliked him and all" negroes" ,as Johnson knew well,in his place, I would have been in top shape, and beat the **** out of O Brien .Johnson came in the ring , hung over ,and put up a desultory performance, knowing he could not lose except by ko, to the light hitting challenger.

Johnson was often his own worst enemy, he fell out with numerous managers, physically attacking a couple of them,punched out more than one "civilian", yet took it easy on his sparring partners a couple of whom became life long friends.

Johnson deprecated Blackburn and remained his enemy,even into late age, yet he paid for Sam McVey's funeral.
Johnson was hounded and vilified by a white press.

Yet he had nothing good to say about the Black heavies that followed him.He took great pleasure in retelling how he let a young Harry Wills go as a sparring partner ,"because he couldnt handle it", apart from McVey he was scathing about his black contemporaries and trained a couple of White Hopes.
Johnson spoke in laudatory terms of Ketchel whom he was very friendly with.

If Teddy Atlas had started that **** with Jack ,the insults ,and humiliation ,Johnson would have decked him

Johnson was a slow developer,he rounded into his prime comparatively late in his career ,in contrast to Jeffries,who was like a comet.
Watching Johnson from ringside must have been a frustrating experience ,knowing he could do more but was too contrary to show it.

As to the Hart fight, Burns beat Hart,Johnson toyed with Burns ???
Each must make up his own mind about Lil Arthur.