Seven seconds of the Jeffries/Sharkey fight that some may not have seen

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Oct 29, 2011.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    You can see both fighters boring in hands low by their hips. They would have gotten killed brawling vs Louis, Liston or Marciano trying that ****.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think all three stop Sharkey.
    Louis and Liston stop Jeffries ,imo ,not sure that Rocky does ,he was inexorable but more measured in his bombardment.
     
  5. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sharkeys right hand is nowhere near his hips in either the still photos or the moving clip.
     
  6. DigMona

    DigMona Member Full Member

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    My eyes are opened. They're now both in my top 10.
     
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    More of the same is at the :30 mark here.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2jOpoecfc[/ame]
     
  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Was just reading an old (1960) Ring magazine article that explained that many at ringside considered Siler's decision to award the fight to Jeffries to a robbery. Is this common knowledge/the conventional wisdom?
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Who said that? The people of the times felt the decision was fair. Sharkey's manager did not claim his own man won, but fished for a draw.

    When the cheers that greeted the announcement that Jeffries had earned the decision of Referee Siler subsided, three enthusiastic cheers were added for the sturdy ex-sailor, who had taken manfully such a terrible beating from an opponent who had height, reach, and weight on his side.


    The Breckenridge Bulletin, Nov. 4, 1899:
    The big fight between Jeffries and Tom Sharkey was pulled off as per schedule, and although the sailor put up the fight of his life, the big Californian was too much for him in the science of boxing. Both men were in perfect trim and each entered the ring with that confidence that confidence that implies victory.

    From the first round to the twenty-fifth the sailor put up a battle that plainly demonstrated that he was a "pug" of no mean ability, and the greater science, alone, of his opponent is all that won him the big fight on points.

    The club house was filled to its utmost capacity, and with few exceptions the decision was considered fair and equitable
     
  10. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    The article was "Tom Sharkey Robbed in Jeffries Fight?" by Dan Daniel. It started on page 20 of the January 1960 issue. The article seems to rely most on Joe Vila, from the New York Evening Sun, who saw it live and claimed that Sharkey had won. Vila also apparently reported that the crowd was in a mood to lynch the ref and that Tom O'Rourke had to summon police to protect him.
     
  11. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That clip is a part of the footage available on YouTube. Nothing new. I've watched or tried watching this footage for many years. It's really to blurry and unsteady to form any real option except that the fighting appeared fierce. Jeffries bout with Ruhlin although still not in great shape is more easy to follow upon many multiple views. Here Jeffries look very good ...ultra short hooks to the body and he also throws a double and triple hook. (More examples of combination punching these fighters were not supposed to know how to do).
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Dan Daniel wasn't at the fight. He was a Boston guy. Joe Villa was a Boston guy too ( Was he Irish and perhaps partial to the Irish Sharkey ?) and died in 1934.

    Tom O'Rourke ( Sharkey's manager ) was seen by some as the man who wanted Sharkey to foul, and Sharkey did foul in this fight.

    What could have got the crowd going just before the final bell in round 25 is this. Sharkey pinned one of Jeffries gloves and ripped it off. As the ref got into the action to pick up the glove Sharkey took a murderous swing at Jeffries who was waiting for the action to start again, then Jeffries retaliated with a bare-knuckle punch. Fair play and Sharkey did not go hand and hand and fighters often attempt a foul when they are in danger.

    I never read anything about the crowd wanting to lynch the ref. That sounds like a fantasy story.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It would be silly to deny that a significant proportion of the crowd thought Sharkey was entitled to at least a draw.
    "Many criticized Siler for failing to consider what Sharkey had done early in the bout.It would be difficult indeed to find a single unprejudiced spectator who wouldn't declare that an injustice had been done Sharkey and that a rational,fair and considered decision should have been a draw".The National Police Gazette. The Gazette gives a long account of the fight and ends by saying."In the face of these facts it is difficult to find a standpoint from which Referee Siler could justify giving his decision to Jeffries."
    The New York Journal said "those who had seen the film of the fight were of the opinion that a draw would have been a popular decision".It should be remembered that the last round was not filmed and had to be re-enacted with
    William Brady, Jeffries manager wearing a hat playing the part of Siler.

    John L Sullivan who was at the fight, thought the verdict for Jeffries was a just one.JimCorbett agreed.
    Jeffries excused his not being able to ko Sharkey by saying his left arm injured in training hurt him during the fight.The Sun said the fight showed that ,"Jeffries is not the knocker out that Sullivan was".
    Sharkey said he felt his rib go in the 24th rd and thought it would come through the skin,Sharkey also dislocated his left arm ad wore it in a sling the next day, a doctor confirmed the injury and a fractured rib.
    Both men were criticized for fouling.Sharkey for butting and elbowing and hitting after the bell,Jeffries for laying on his opponent and holding him around the neck. The Gazette said ,"Jeffries wrestled Sharkey pushed him backwards over the top rope and held him like a vice ,laying his weight on him."
    Siler the referee said it was anybody's fight up to the 20th rd then Jeffries had a shade the better of the next 2 rounds.Siler thought Jeffries took the last 3 rds to clinch the fight.
    The New York World thought Sharkey deserved the verdict.The New York Journal gave it to Jeffries,the NY Daily Tribune picked Sharkey as the winner,the Asbury Park Daily press thought it a draw.the Brooklyn Daily Eagle picked Jeffries.The Journal, which picked Jeffries as the winner admitted that ,"there was a big debate as to whether Sharkey won or at least deserved a draw","Jeffries won the start and the finish but Sharkey won the middle".
    Though The Sun went for Jeffries it did say."His victory over Sharkey last night was not clear cut and caused many of of his supporters to feel chagrined .He outweighed Sharkey by 25 pounds was taller,had a longer reach,and was supposed to be stronger.
    Yet in twenty five rounds he could not stop the sailor and received the referee's decision solely by a phenomenal rally in the last few rounds during which time he made up for most of the lst ground.There is no doubt that when the fight ended Sharkey could have gone on and probably have fought with as much strength as he did at any stage of the fight.
    His recuperative powers showed that to be a possibility for him at any stage of the fight.
    For that reason,and for the additional reason that he forced the fight and landed almost as many blows of effect as Jeffries,his friends believe he should have been named the winner."

    Many felt that Siler had discounted a lot of Sharkey's work because of his roughness in the clinches,and its readily apparent that Sharkey forced the fight.Siler was recognized as the premier referee of his time and an honest one too.He gave his decision and it stands.


    So in summarising, no way was it a formality decision for Jeffries.

    NB Your "version of the glove coming off is rather different to Adam Pollack's!

    ",However during Sharkey's fall,in his efforts to hold himself up, he had ripped off Jeff's left glove.he jumped up quickly and darted back towards Jeffries ,into a clinch.Jeff called Siler's attention to the missing glove,so Siler shouted to Sharkey to," keep back", and pushed him back.Tom walked off ,looking anxious.Siler tried to put the glove back on ,but the laces could not be untied,and he could not get the glove back on for fully 15 seconds.Tom could no longer stan the suspense.So he rushed at Jeff, running aroundSiler's elbow.Jeff shook his head and waved his bare left hand,but Tom dashed in anyway.Jeff either met him with a straight bareknuckle onth neck and clinched,[Corbett's version], or simply reached out with his left and held Tom.
    The popular version is that Jeff struck him.
    However The Eagle said,"Jeffries made no attempt to use his bare left hand." Siler jumped in push Tom away and the gong rang.
    Sharkey whirled around and swung his right hand ,but it only landed on the shoulder."
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017