Shakur Stevenson is the best boxer in the world

ElCyclon · Jul 15, 2025 at 1:51 PM

Joeywill said: ↑

When Tank stops ducking we will find out
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Until then let's stop with premature adulations.

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:05 PM

CooperKupp said: ↑

I KNEW the shakur praising from the usual suspects was going to get outta hand years ago once he got a halfway decent win. He wasn’t even impressive the other night and lacks serious pop. He’s extremely fortunate Loma has been out of prime for the last five years and I think Linares would’ve probably stopped him too. I just don’t see anything that really stands out about him that warrants the praise he gets by some. Even his amateur credentials are ok but nothing to write home about. His biggest claim to fame before turning pro has been then now famous meme of him crying but other then that…

I mean shakur is a good fighter don’t get me wrong but Bivol, Usyk (Yes still) and Inoue are better CLEARLY and that’s just for starters.
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Laughable
Had he beaten Linares people like you would discredit it by calling Linares a C level fighter

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:06 PM

Serge said: ↑

Josh Taylor was undisputed at 140 at the time. He was the king of the division and held all the belts that Teofimo wanted to take from him but the little female dog refused to travel to the UK for the fight

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Andre Ward flat-out refused to travel to his opponent's backyards, expecting everyone else to play by a set of rules that he refused to play by once in his career. Everyone had to come and fight him in his backyard or country but he would never dare do the same. He had home advantage for all of his fights, whether it be hometown, state or country, and home refs for every single one of his fights, whether it be hometown, state or country, 23 of them from Cali, and a scandalous amount of home judges, very often 3 or at worst 2 even vs foreigners

He had home advantage vs every world class opponent he fought and home ref for all his fights, a massive advantage for a filthy dirty serial cheat like him whose style and success was heavily attributed to his incessant fouling and octopus grabbing

Ali had no problem travelling and fighting in his opponent's backyards but Floyd who was supposedly the face off boxing and TBE didn't do it once

Again

Shakur

Would you fight Inoue, the way smaller 122 pounder Inoue, in Japan?

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What do you think Usyk would say if he was asked that question? He would say ''no problem'' immediately. How do we know? Because we've seen him say exactly that numerous times and forge a career doing it unlike these have gloves won't travel deck-stackers who need all the advantages in their favour as many as can be wangled in their favour before they will sign on the dotted line, to the extent that they're almost are or are rolling with loaded dice, to achieve 'greatness'

I think he might fight a foreigner in their backyard one day but I guarantee it won't be with them having a home ref and three home judges, nor even 2 home judges, that is deemed as extremely unfair, completely outrageous even, by many fighters and fans over there. The irony couldn't be more priceless

So you have to ask yourself if it's so easy, why are so many of these 'greats' and the best fighters in the world so averse to doing so and why did they categorically refuse to do it even once?

Does the chance of you losing, either via hook or crook, increase if your travel to your opponent's backyard? Yes or no? Trying to workout why they call it home 'advantage'?

Are you more likely to get robbed at home or in your opponent's backyard? Which one is it? The answer is right there in front of your eyes because we see it on almost a weekly basis.

Heroes of yours categorically refused to do it, told you they would never do, and never actually did it but it's so easy. They steadfastly refused to do it for a reason

Usyk is literally the complete antithesis to them. He doesn't care if every advantage is stacked against him, even when he's already giving away huge physical advantages and big youth advantage.
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Dont matter where the fight wouldve been Teofimo Lopez was always gonna beat Josh Taylor
Just a better fighter

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:14 PM

Serge said: ↑

Josh Taylor was undisputed at 140 at the time. He was the king of the division and held all the belts that Teofimo wanted to take from him but the little female dog refused to travel to the UK for the fight

This content is protected

Andre Ward flat-out refused to travel to his opponent's backyards, expecting everyone else to play by a set of rules that he refused to play by once in his career. Everyone had to come and fight him in his backyard or country but he would never dare do the same. He had home advantage for all of his fights, whether it be hometown, state or country, and home refs for every single one of his fights, whether it be hometown, state or country, 23 of them from Cali, and a scandalous amount of home judges, very often 3 or at worst 2 even vs foreigners

He had home advantage vs every world class opponent he fought and home ref for all his fights, a massive advantage for a filthy dirty serial cheat like him whose style and success was heavily attributed to his incessant fouling and octopus grabbing

Ali had no problem travelling and fighting in his opponent's backyards but Floyd who was supposedly the face off boxing and TBE didn't do it once

Again

Shakur

Would you fight Inoue, the way smaller 122 pounder Inoue, in Japan?

This content is protected

What do you think Usyk would say if he was asked that question? He would say ''no problem'' immediately. How do we know? Because we've seen him say exactly that numerous times and forge a career doing it unlike these have gloves won't travel deck-stackers who need all the advantages in their favour as many as can be wangled in their favour before they will sign on the dotted line, to the extent that they're almost are or are rolling with loaded dice, to achieve 'greatness'

I think he might fight a foreigner in their backyard one day but I guarantee it won't be with them having a home ref and three home judges, nor even 2 home judges, that is deemed as extremely unfair, completely outrageous even, by many fighters and fans over there. The irony couldn't be more priceless

So you have to ask yourself if it's so easy, why are so many of these 'greats' and the best fighters in the world so averse to doing so and why did they categorically refuse to do it even once?

Does the chance of you losing, either via hook or crook, increase if your travel to your opponent's backyard? Yes or no? Trying to workout why they call it home 'advantage'?

Are you more likely to get robbed at home or in your opponent's backyard? Which one is it? The answer is right there in front of your eyes because we see it on almost a weekly basis.

Heroes of yours categorically refused to do it, told you they would never do, and never actually did it but it's so easy. They steadfastly refused to do it for a reason

Usyk is literally the complete antithesis to them. He doesn't care if every advantage is stacked against him, even when he's already giving away huge physical advantages and big youth advantage.
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You give Usyk too much credit for doing whats necessary to make money

If he could headline in Ukraine and sell out a 100K stadium in Ukraine hed do it

The same goes for the reverse

If Ward, Mayweather, Shakur, Teofimo Lopez and others had to go to other places theyd do it

You put way too much stock into fighters (who do it out of desperation) fighting on away soil

Of course in a perfect world youd have boxers fight on a neutral site with a neutral ref and neutral judging

Unfortunately, thats not how things work

The idea that this should be a significant factor in evaluating boxers is a stretch to me

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:16 PM

Serge said: ↑

I think he's very talented but, as I said, had he turned pro at the same age Loma did he wouldn't eve be a world champion in one weight class yet, unless he was brave enough to fight for a world title in his 2nd or 3rd fight like Loma did which is highly unlikely and would he have done so in his opponent's country with a home ref and three home judges like Loma did vs GRJ and it was essentially a home fixture for Mexican Salido fighting a Ukrainian in Texas. Of course he wouldn't. Not in a million years

So had Loma turned pro at the same age as Shakur, which gets conveniently ignored by so many, 135 would be BARE minimum his SIXTH WEIGHT CLASS, not his THIRD and he would be a six weight world champion 100% (people can try and argue otherwise but they will fail) not a three weight one and he would've won three of the four belts in his sixth weight class and been robbed of being undisputed in his sixth weight class vs a 20lbs heavier, almost 6'' longer reach gigantic weight bully in said weight bullies backyard with a home ref and three home judges when past his prime at 35 y/o.

How many fighters become undisputed in their sixth weight class or at 35 y/o in their opponent's backyards vs a 20lbs heavier near 6'' longer reach opponent? How many even attempt to do so? Crawford's about to attempt to do it vs a Clenelo who is well past his best and barely any bigger than him but he's a god and as brave as they come for doing so in his own country

And, as said, it would be Loma's sixth weight class bare minimum. It might be his seventh and more had he turned pro even younger

How many win three of the four belts in their sixth weight class, let alone on the road like he did winning them individually vs much or way bigger opponents? But he's a ''hype job'' and Shakur is the best fighter in the sport, for beating Herring, Valdez, and Zepeda

Let's see Shakur try and do that and he will have to go up higher than 147 to at least 154 to be giving away those kind of physical advantages
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Its Lomachenkos fault that he took so long to turn pro. Shouldnt have had 400 amateur fights. Oh well.

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:21 PM

Serge said: ↑

I think he's very talented but, as I said, had he turned pro at the same age Loma did he wouldn't eve be a world champion in one weight class yet, unless he was brave enough to fight for a world title in his 2nd or 3rd fight like Loma did which is highly unlikely and would he have done so in his opponent's country with a home ref and three home judges like Loma did vs GRJ and it was essentially a home fixture for Mexican Salido fighting a Ukrainian in Texas. Of course he wouldn't. Not in a million years

So had Loma turned pro at the same age as Shakur, which gets conveniently ignored by so many, 135 would be BARE minimum his SIXTH WEIGHT CLASS, not his THIRD and he would be a six weight world champion 100% (people can try and argue otherwise but they will fail) not a three weight one and he would've won three of the four belts in his sixth weight class and been robbed of being undisputed in his sixth weight class vs a 20lbs heavier, almost 6'' longer reach gigantic weight bully in said weight bullies backyard with a home ref and three home judges when past his prime at 35 y/o.

How many fighters become undisputed in their sixth weight class or at 35 y/o in their opponent's backyards vs a 20lbs heavier near 6'' longer reach opponent? How many even attempt to do so? Crawford's about to attempt to do it vs a Clenelo who is well past his best and barely any bigger than him but he's a god and as brave as they come for doing so in his own country

And, as said, it would be Loma's sixth weight class bare minimum. It might be his seventh and more had he turned pro even younger

How many win three of the four belts in their sixth weight class, let alone on the road like he did winning them individually vs much or way bigger opponents? But he's a ''hype job'' and Shakur is the best fighter in the sport, for beating Herring, Valdez, and Zepeda

Let's see Shakur try and do that and he will have to go up higher than 147 to at least 154 to be giving away those kind of physical advantages
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Fighting for a world title in your 2nd and 3rd fight when you are 26 is not so fire

Age of the fighter when they won their first world title
Shakur Stevenson 22
Vasyl Lomachenko 26

Lomachenko shoudlve turned pro earlier and he wouldve had a better career

He was wasting his time in the amatuers

No one in the real world cares about it. Few in boxing do. Maybe a few on this forum but not really.

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:25 PM

Serge said: ↑

I think he's very talented but, as I said, had he turned pro at the same age Loma did he wouldn't eve be a world champion in one weight class yet, unless he was brave enough to fight for a world title in his 2nd or 3rd fight like Loma did which is highly unlikely and would he have done so in his opponent's country with a home ref and three home judges like Loma did vs GRJ and it was essentially a home fixture for Mexican Salido fighting a Ukrainian in Texas. Of course he wouldn't. Not in a million years

So had Loma turned pro at the same age as Shakur, which gets conveniently ignored by so many, 135 would be BARE minimum his SIXTH WEIGHT CLASS, not his THIRD and he would be a six weight world champion 100% (people can try and argue otherwise but they will fail) not a three weight one and he would've won three of the four belts in his sixth weight class and been robbed of being undisputed in his sixth weight class vs a 20lbs heavier, almost 6'' longer reach gigantic weight bully in said weight bullies backyard with a home ref and three home judges when past his prime at 35 y/o.

How many fighters become undisputed in their sixth weight class or at 35 y/o in their opponent's backyards vs a 20lbs heavier near 6'' longer reach opponent? How many even attempt to do so? Crawford's about to attempt to do it vs a Clenelo who is well past his best and barely any bigger than him but he's a god and as brave as they come for doing so in his own country

And, as said, it would be Loma's sixth weight class bare minimum. It might be his seventh and more had he turned pro even younger

How many win three of the four belts in their sixth weight class, let alone on the road like he did winning them individually vs much or way bigger opponents? But he's a ''hype job'' and Shakur is the best fighter in the sport, for beating Herring, Valdez, and Zepeda

Let's see Shakur try and do that and he will have to go up higher than 147 to at least 154 to be giving away those kind of physical advantages
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I guess its possible. I just cant give him credit for something he didnt do.

Its not even a situation where a fighter was ducked so I can at least somewhat give them credit for being ducked (which shows their greatness somewhat)

In this case Lomachenko was literally not a pro

Cant give him credit for being an amatuer and not turning pro

Thats just bad management and career planning

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:40 PM

Serge said: ↑

I think he's very talented but, as I said, had he turned pro at the same age Loma did he wouldn't eve be a world champion in one weight class yet, unless he was brave enough to fight for a world title in his 2nd or 3rd fight like Loma did which is highly unlikely and would he have done so in his opponent's country with a home ref and three home judges like Loma did vs GRJ and it was essentially a home fixture for Mexican Salido fighting a Ukrainian in Texas. Of course he wouldn't. Not in a million years

So had Loma turned pro at the same age as Shakur, which gets conveniently ignored by so many, 135 would be BARE minimum his SIXTH WEIGHT CLASS, not his THIRD and he would be a six weight world champion 100% (people can try and argue otherwise but they will fail) not a three weight one and he would've won three of the four belts in his sixth weight class and been robbed of being undisputed in his sixth weight class vs a 20lbs heavier, almost 6'' longer reach gigantic weight bully in said weight bullies backyard with a home ref and three home judges when past his prime at 35 y/o.

How many fighters become undisputed in their sixth weight class or at 35 y/o in their opponent's backyards vs a 20lbs heavier near 6'' longer reach opponent? How many even attempt to do so? Crawford's about to attempt to do it vs a Clenelo who is well past his best and barely any bigger than him but he's a god and as brave as they come for doing so in his own country

And, as said, it would be Loma's sixth weight class bare minimum. It might be his seventh and more had he turned pro even younger

How many win three of the four belts in their sixth weight class, let alone on the road like he did winning them individually vs much or way bigger opponents? But he's a ''hype job'' and Shakur is the best fighter in the sport, for beating Herring, Valdez, and Zepeda

Let's see Shakur try and do that and he will have to go up higher than 147 to at least 154 to be giving away those kind of physical advantages
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Shakur will most likely end his career having accomplished more than Lomachenko (pro not that amatuer garbage)
It is what it is.

Hes still an ATG when you provide context of his career like you did (hes far better than the 18-3 record)

I too had thought Lomachenko would end up being the best boxer of this era. It didnt happen.

Its life

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:29 PM

MetalLicker said: ↑

People usually overreact after a fight, but people need to face reality.

Zepeda's resume is a bunch of nobodies, other than Farmer. He's got a gift in the first fight and barely scrapped by in the 2nd. And we all saw what happened to Farmer against Schofield.

I know some people were high on Zepeda and some people clearly overrated him. I never thought once that Zepeda could beat Stevenson based on what I saw against Farmer.

Stevenson needs better competition and test those skills against better fighters. That's how you prove your skills at the highest level. Bivol didn't get on the list until he schooled Canelo, who was ranked P4P #1 at the time. He didn't get on the P4P list by beating Pascal, Barrera and Smith Jr. After he beat Canelo, he then beat Ramirez and then beat another undisputed champion in Beterbiev before he was widely recognized in the top 5.

But here we are, saying Stevenson is the best fighter in the world because he beat a guy who had very much a paper record.
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Canelo was fighting out of his weight class vs Bivol

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:30 PM

ElCyclon said: ↑

Until then let's stop with premature adulations.
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Nah cant wait because it can be like a Benavidez vs Canelo situation where one guy ducks the other for so long and possibly forever

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:38 PM

Grinder said: ↑

Shakur scrapes past Zepeda, and this is now placing him in p4p contention?

Usyk, Bivol, Inoue, Beterbiev, and Crawford are clearly ahead.
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Scrapes is certainly an interesting way to put it

MetalLicker · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:51 PM

Joeywill said: ↑

Canelo was fighting out of his weight class vs Bivol
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Size is not why Bivol beat Canelo. It was skill.

Bivol is a small light heavyweight. He was 183 lbs on fight night, compared bout Berlanga's 193 fight night weight against Canelo. He even offered to fight Canelo at 168, which Canelo didn't take.

Canelo was also a 5-1 favorite, almost like Stevenson was a 6-1 favorite against Zepeda.

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:54 PM

MetalLicker said: ↑

Size is not why Bivol beat Canelo. It was skill.

Bivol is a small light heavyweight. He was 183 lbs on fight night, compared bout Berlanga's 193 fight night weight against Canelo. He even offered to fight Canelo at 168, which Canelo didn't take.

Canelo was also a 5-1 favorite, almost like Stevenson was a 6-1 favorite against Zepeda.
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Canelo has a bad gas tank at 175

Odds dont matter

The odds were that way because most didnt even know who Bivol was

MetalLicker · Jul 15, 2025 at 2:56 PM

Joeywill said: ↑

Canelo has a bad gas tank at 175

Odds dont matter

The odds were that way because most didnt even know who Bivol was
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Everyone's gas tank fades when they're forced to work harder, and get punched in the face.

Joeywill · Jul 15, 2025 at 3:07 PM

MetalLicker said: ↑

Everyone's gas tank fades when they're forced to work harder, and get punched in the face.
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Canelo already has a bad tank at SMW and a really bad one at LHW
Even vs Kovalev he had a low output

Great win for Bivol but it has gotten very overrated over time

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