Shannon Briggs on how hard Big George hit

No, I came here back during the summer of 2014 when I was a 13 year old just entering high school, and had dreams of being a professional fighter.

Yeah my opinions have changed quite a bit as well. I used to think Holmes was underrated, but now I think he's overrated. On the other hand, I used to think Liston was underrated, though I think he's now getting his dues. I used to think older fighters were underrated, and more modern fighters are overrated but now my stance is the exact opposite. Wilder is another one, who I think is laughably underrated. The same people calling Fury a H2H god, dismiss Wilder as a bum despite Wilder dropping him four times, giving him hell, taking years off his career, and being the closest person (before Ngannou ) to hand him a loss. I'm no mathematician but something's not adding up.

It gets quite frankly ridiculous considering the only person who knocked him out in his prime was Foreman. He was past it for Shavers, and flat out shot for Cooney. I've mentioned this before but I don't think his confidence against punchers quite recovered mentally after his KO loss to Foreman and he started to freeze every time he got hit with Foreman-level power again, perhaps getting PTSD. Against Foreman he actually had a plan, that was actually working out well for him. Whereas, against Shavers he evidently didn't know what the **** he wanted to do. Unpopular opinion but I've always thought a pre-Foreman Norton would've turned the trick on Shavers and Cooney. He actually hit Shavers with some decent shots, that were clearly bothering him but Shavers knew he was always going to come out on top in a slug fest so it didn't deter him much.

I'd admittedly be one of those giving you a like.

I'll have to check it out, but his association with the NOI always left a bad taste in my mouth as a Muslim myself. The Nation of Islam is the furthest thing from Islam there is and directly contradicts it. For example, in Islam, Muhammad is the seal of the prophets. The Quran states, their will be no prophets after Muhammad. This literally couldn't be any clearer. Yet the NOI believe Elijah Muhammad was a prophet. They also believed their were multiple Allahs (arabic word for God) who were men, which not only contradicts the divinity of God in the Quran but is in direct contrast with the strict monotheism in the Quran.

They also worshipped Wallace Ford, a career criminal and the founder of the NOI as Allah, and believe he created the African Americans.

Perhaps the most laughable thing is they believe white men were created in a lab by an evil and rogue scientist and that they were all devils, and violent, sub-human, degenerates and that Wallace Muhammad who disappeared off the face of the Earth in 1934 is going to return ala Jesus and wipe off the white people in this World.

The Quran teaches that Allah created all men and women as equal, and it wasn't one's race that make them inferior, or superior to anyone else, but their actions.

It's just very aggravating that Ali and Malcolm X both fell for this stupid, racist, evil, cult.

 

Bad policy thought it was - I totally agree that Ken was really sticking it to Earnie, albeit brief.

I don’t know if he’s underrated in this regard, but Norton could really punch, particularly when the momentum was on his side.

We know Ali had a great chin but Ken shook Ali bad on a number of occasions imo.

As to Ken’s strategy vs Earnie. Announcer Cosell noted that he’d spoken to Ken and his plan was to allow Shavers to tire himself out.

I can’t recall if Ken went as far as saying he was going to play the rope a dope - but during the fight Cosell noted that it appeared as if that was what Ken was trying on.

Crazy if Ken was trying to emulate Ali in his attempt to allow Shavers to tire.

The rope a dope was no magic pill for everyone, in fact it was uniquely only beneficial to Ali - a good degree of punishment still had to be shipped along the way - and in that regard, Ken was no Ali.

BUT also, Shavers already proved himself as no dope - when Ali laid on the ropes, Earnie really punished him so Ali didn’t stay there for long at all.

Earnie was very good at getting the big shots home even when Ali covered up on the ropes.

Re the NOI - Ali also had no problem throwing Malcolm X under the bus.

 

I agree. I think with an actual game plan, had he not froze, he would've won, and I don't think a pre-Foreman Norton would've froze at all.

I agree. Cobb once said, Norton once hit him as hard as Shavers ever did..... except Norton did it once and Shavers did it every time he landed.

I agree, but I don't think he ever hurt him to the degree others did, like Frazier, or ever Foremsan.

"We have to either fight him at a distance or in very close. Kenny has to move in quick and meet him, and make him work inside. The closer Kenny is to a man, the better he is and the better I feel." Norton's manager.

Norton did seem to attempt this at first then improvised and went to the ropes, trying to catch and counter Shavers' punches which he was actually doing a decent job at, as we discussed but again Norton froze once he tasted that power, then resorted to doing his version of the rope a dope. Just as luck would have it, Shavers' who wasn't exactly known for his accuracy, and tended to loop his punches, hit Kenny with perhaps his most accurate, short, and tight punches.

I agree. Ali also benefitted from some unusually loose ropes against Foreman which absorbed most of the damage. Even so he sustained a LOT of damage and was pissing blood for weeks. I'm pretty sure we discussed this but I'm 99% positive Frazier absorbed the hardest punches Foreman ever threw, and Ali never really had to taste anything to that degree.

I agree. Just like when he had Norton on the ropes, he was frighteningly accurate. Though to be fair, Ali had visibly declined a lot by then.

I agree. Malcolm had the sense to leave the NOI far before Ali did, and by the time Ali realized Malcolm was right all along, it was to late. He was already dead. It breaks my heart to this day.

 

Maybe that's what the holy book says however in reality Muslim women are the most oppressed on this earth

 

If people feel numb and aren't sure if they even have teeth in their mouth, then we have to look at the math.

If force=mass x acceleration, and Evander is saying that Foreman hit ridiculously hard despite lacking speed, then we can only conclude Foreman probably had some of the densest bones in boxing history. He was already a massive guy weighing 250-260 in his comeback and had a very bulky/robust frame, so if you combine that with dense bones he can hurt people without even needing much snap or proper technique. And if you watch his fights this is very apparent in the way he knocks people over with what seem to just be casual arm swings.

I guess a good comparison would be Shaolin monks who strike their hands in sand, Kyokushin karate fighters who make their fists, shins, and feet tougher striking solid objects, or Muy Thai boxers kicking trees. Except in Foreman's case he didn't do that, he might have just been born with a very durable skeleton. I have a friend whose built like that, just bumping into him can hurt and if you punch him in the shoulder or elbow, it feels like a rock. He can punch a dumpster and leave a small dent in it without breaking any of his bones.

 

While I strongly disagree that they're the most oppressed on this Earth, I agree many Muslims treat their wives in a disgusting manner. But no the Quran itself doesn't condone this behavior, nor treat women as unequal. As a matter of fact, mothers are thrice as important, and deserve thrice the love, as a father according to the Quran.

 

I’ve often said half-jokingly that when he dies, they need to put. George’s skeleton in the Smithsonian.

There was one of his fights as ‘Old George’ on HBO where they showed him getting gloved up. It took two men, both basically standing one on either side of his arm, pulling and tugging like they were trying to drag a boat ashore, to get the glove over his first … I mean it barely fit and seemed to stretch the glove (and padding) so thin just to get it over his hand.

I’ve likened it to hitting someone with a frozen turkey or a canned ham (can intact).

 

To be fair, Ali regretted this and said it killed him for years he couldn't make amends with Malcolm. The NOI seems so illogical with the benefit of hindsight, but they were such an attractive alternative for people who essentially had no culture or identity and sorely lacked confidence. Thankfully Ali went to Orthodox Islam and realized saying only one race is above others is nonsense.