Shannon Briggs vs Floyd Patterson

I actually had Patterson winning all 3 of those fights I don't think those fights hurt his legacy at all, Patterson performed very well in Quarry fights and the Ellis fight is considered highly controversial.

Even the 2nd Ali fight Patterson did better in the rematch, and the fight was actually pretty much even scoring wise I think I had it 3-3 at the time of the stoppage.

 

I don't think a former champ who reigned for years really gets credit for almost beating elite fighters. Or for being borderline top 5. According to boxing rec Patterson was knocked down twice in both Quarry fights. And Quarrys Pattersons size.

 

Proper context is needed here though.

Quarry is considered one of the best fighters to have never won a world title and was considered a top contender in 60s and 70s. Both fights were also razor thin close that alot of people thought Patterson might of edged.

The Ellis fight is considered highly controversial and in some cases considered a robbery by some in which majority had Patterson winning.

Patterson was actually more competitive vs Ali in their 2nd fight compared to their 1st meeting.

Patterson also had a good win vs Bonavena during this time who was also considered a top contender.

I don't see how either of the above is a negative in regards to Patterson's legacy.

 

IMO it shows that he probably would’ve been the best tier 2 guy of the 70s if his prime were during those years. It would be easy to say his success was solely due to being a weak era without that part of his career.

 

All this nostalgia nonsens with a 185 pound man vs a ranked 245+ pound contender is getting out of hand...

 

People overestimate Floyd's fragility because of the two first-round losses to Liston. Patterson fought plenty of hard punchers in his career.

 

Floyd Patterson didn't trash talk. Period.

 

I'm not disagreeing with any of what you or dynamite said I'm just saying without those last 7 years hed be viewed in a more positive light.

I feel you're looking at it like someone in the 60s thought he wasn't an elite guy and would get destroyed by the best HWs. And that edging out Quarry and Ellis proved he belonged. He was the champ for like 5 years I'm saying he was above that before and that hurts him. Not because he didn't fight well but because it suggested Patterson was something less then people at the time would have previously thought he was.

 

You make many assertions with which I disagree vehemently. Are you claiming that Floyd avoided fighting Marciano? He was only 20 when Rocky fought his last fight. If you ask me, Rocky avoided Floyd. The only time Rocky seriously considered a comeback was when Ingo won the title. When that happened he went into training. You say Moore was running on fumes in 1956? Look at his record after that. And don't forget he floored Marciano. In another post you make a big deal of Patterson getting decked seven times by Johansson. The truth is Floyd got clocked and he never regained his balance until the ref stopped the fight. None of the other punches Ingo landed was a solid shot. It was the one right hand that did the damage. That punch probably would've knocked most guys down. Ingo clocked Machen in similar fashion and Eddie had a good chin. Are you honestly saying that Patterson was afraid to fight Willie Pastrano? That leaves me dumbfounded. He would have murdered Pastrano and would've had little trouble with Valdes or Folley. Machen needed to beat Ingo to get a title shot but we know what happened. Sorry, Kid Bacon, you and I are poles apart on this subject.

 

People underestimate what Briggs could do to a pretend heavyweight like Patterson because he got the crap pummelled out of him by Vitali.

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Yes but lets have some context that guy probably wasn't even a top 50 Heavyweight, Briggs knocked out alot of cans and lost to a few unremarkable Heavyweights like Fields, McCline, Wilson, not to mention his gift draw vs Botha.

Briggs lucked out getting a gift decision against an almost 50 year old George Foreman.

Whilst Briggs did have some power/speed he had no stamina and his boxing skills were mediocre.

Patterson is considerably smaller but hes a level or 2 above Briggs in skills and alot of other attributes, and sometimes when you're superior in boxing skills it can overcome size.

 

For top twenty heavyweights, he’s got to have one of the better post title/post prime careers. Possibly top 5.

 

This is a weird mix of guys chosen for durability, guys chosen for skill, and guys chosen for both.

 

Patterson suffers from two problems in these fantasy fights:
1. perceived lack of durability
2. he's a LHW in the modern world -- why is nobody asking how Bivol would do against Briggs, because Bivol and Patterson are the same size.

I think Patterson would be a terror at LHW today. For that division, he'd be the equivalent to Mike Tyson in terms of speed and power.