Sharkey vs. Carnera II, Was it fixed?

He fought a load of bums, that's how come so many KOs. He had 70% KO ratio. Even Brian Nielsen had 65% KO ratio, and he was no massive hitter either.
Primo Carnera could KO stiffs and bums, and on his best night he KO'd the world champion, who was in reality no longer much of a force, really more of a has-been than a legit "live" champion. Sharkey had deteriorated since their first meeting, and Carnera had improved. I think everyone would agree with that, and once that's accepted I dont see why there should be any problem in accepting that Sharkey probably didn't take a dive. Of course, nothing can be proven either way. I just think the massive conspiracy theories surrounding Carnera are given a little too much credence.

 

The commentary to this is by dear old Reg Gutteridge who knew a thing or two about Carnera ,as his father and uncle trained and seconded him in his fights in the UK.
Larry Gains knocked Carnera down in this fight, the incident shown looks like a stumble to me. Gains won it convincingly,but it was Carnera who got the title shot, not Gains.
Larry Gains was a fine gentleman ,I spoke to him ringside once,asked him about Carnera,he just smiled and shook his head,the man he really wanted was Sharkey ,but Jack wouldnt play.
Gains autobiography "The Impossible Dream",[ referring to his quest for the title shot he was allways denied].is a great read.

 

Come one now.

Even if we were to throw out the Sharkey fight, he also beat Earnie Schaff, Art Lasky, and King Levinsky. These guys were all ranked in the top five over a period of a few years.

I fail to see how anybody who beat three contenders like that back to back could not be considered a championship calibre challenger.

 

"hyperbolic balderdash"

It is the appraisal of one of the most respected boxing writers of the era who was at ringside. He obviously disagrees with fiction writers of a later generation such as Budd Schulberg. In my opinion, Dawson has better credentials to judge Carnera.

I notice your list, other than the Sharkey insertion, does not include most of Carnera's major ko's, such as they were--Schaaf, Neusel, Campolo, Gross, Impellitierre, etc.

 

"look at his record after losing the title"

Clouded by the fact that Carnera became ill with diabetes and would lose a kidney in 1938. Even today diabetes is a major problem, and medicine was far less advanced back then. Neither you nor I can judge how much of his decline was due to his medical conditions.

 

Carnera defeated more than a reasonable number of contenders. You left out Tommy Loughran, Paulino Uzcudun, Jim Maloney, Don McCorkindale, and Walter Neusel.

Also, I find it interesting that most of the major contenders he fought in fact went the distance with him, which argues for these fights being on the level. If they were paid to lose, why weren't they paid to take a dive?

 

Larry Gains beat Carnera who ended up getting the shot but Gains quickly went on the decline after his win over Primo, losing to Neusel, Harvey, McCorkindale, Foord while Carnera went on a long winning streak.

 

I love this ... great excuses ... he just developed life threatening diabetes, I mean come on. He was a mobbed up fighter, period. Show me footage of one legit knockdown let alone knockout ... You ever see a guy with that many KO's on his record and not listed by anyone as a hard puncher let alone a top KO guy ...

Carnera did manage to become a halfway decent fighter who was able to make best use of his huge size against certain match ups like 80 pound smaller light heavyweights or short, slow , limited brawlers . Primo had exceptional courage and was always in terrific condition. However to try and portray him as any form of legit champion is a joke.

Dundee used to tell a story about fighters abstaining from sex before bouts and some using rubber bands to keep from having wet dreams and he said you could have used a box of rubber bands on Carnera and he never would have been a real fighter ...

 

Nat Fleischer was ringside too read his report sometime.I never mentioned Shulberg in any post of this thread.
Schaaf? You really want to count that as a bona fide ko? Watch the fight ending for Christ sake man, he goes down from a jab!
Neusel was retired with A CUT EYE ,NEVER having been down.
Campolo was nothing and went the distance in the rematch without going down, his record when Carnera beat him was 17-5-1 . Is that a major win?
.Gross? Scraping the barrel aren't you?
His record is studded with some of Carnera's playmates.
Clark x2
Peterson
Harris
Godfrey x3 . Godfrey stopped him 6 months before Carnera,perhaps George forgot the script?

Impellitiere? He was having his 11th fight having lost 3 of 10,and it was a TKO ,if these are Primo's "major kos", his claims as any sort of a puncher are in trouble.

 

He fought a load of has-beens and third-raters. They are many guys who aren't world class punchers who are fed easy fights and have great KO records. It's common in boxing.

He was a legit champion as long as his victory over Sharkey was legit, which I for one think is not unlikely.
If a Mike Tyson can lose to a Buster Douglas, and a Muhammad Ali can lose to Leon Spinks, I dont see what's so hard to fathom about Jack Sharkey, clearly on the downgrade as a fighter, losing to Primo Carnera. Sharkey wasn't that good, certainly by 1933.

Well, that settles it then.

 

You don't have to be a huge puncher to score many KO's. Ever heard of LaMar Clark?

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=9367&cat=boxer

Carnera scored 70+ KO's but look at the men he knocked out. Did they really have to "fix" stoppage wins over 1-13 Constant Barrick, 1-3 Buster Martin, 1-7 Frank Zaveta, 1-11 Umberto Torriani, 2-8 Jerry Pavelec? Carnera KO'd mostly tomato cans and a couple of decent fighters. It's not impossible to imagine 260 lb Carnera KO'ing 190 lb men.

He was one of the first ever "built up" fighters and padded up his record against clubfighters who stood no chance against him. This is a regular practise now but back then it was seen as a disgrace and I'm sure a lot of the rumours about Carnera's fights being fixed were based on this. Even Rocky Marciano is sometimes thought to have had opponents taking dives against him. What would they have thought if someone like Valuev fought back then?

I believe his KO of 6'9, 250 lb Jose Santa was filmed so I'll try to get it uploaded once I get my hands on the footage.

 

Loughran was really a LHVY giving away 86lbs!.Loughran had Carnera in trouble twice in the fight.
Uzcudun was only a fringe contender at his best .When he fought Carnera he was 34 years old ,had 3 more fights after, without a win ,then retired.
Maloney was china chinned yet never hot the deck in 2 fights.
Neusel was European level and only very briefly rated .
Ditto McCorkindale.

 

Do you not think Clark was a puncher? He could hit but lacked the ability to deliver his punch against the top men.

 

How do you know if Lamar Clark was a puncher ?
He knocked out a load of utter bums, guys who weren't even fighters.

 

Seen a few clips.