Sharp punchers, powerful punchers and hybrids.

Its a very interesting thread and one that has been partially covered before by the idea of 'clean' versus 'dirty' energy.

On a specific note, I agree Tyson is a hybrid puncher, for me he is very much near the speed end of the spectrum.

If forced to say I guess I prefer the clean punchers, but when push comes to shove I love watching all boxing.

 

Shake, nah good thread homie, interesting and thoughtful, keep em comin'....

 

I agree with your classifications, and it's a good thread.

Sometimes though, I think we tend to overcomplicate things. A KO by George or KO by Hearns is just as devastating to the competition, and both are eaqually entertaining to watch.

 

You could always repost it there but you'll get a good response here, and probably a higher level of comments and analysis too.

I want to ask you a question. If Tommy Hearns only had average hand speed would he still be a devastating puncher? If so, why?

 

No, speed is not essential for sharp punching. In his 40's Duran certainly wasn't particularly fast, but he scored one kayo I saw (I forget the opponent) with deflection marksmanship. Correctly anticipating where his quarry's face would be, he accurately directed his right hand to the same point in space, and scored a one punch kayo by breaking his hapless prey's nose. (Roberto's right actually shoved the poor kid's nose halfway across his face. A fascinatingly hideous thing to watch replayed.) Duran was in his mid 40's when he dumped Pazienza on the deck for the first time in Vinnie's career with a similarly well-timed shot.

Arguello probably wouldn't be considered a speedster by most, but who would suggest that Alexis wasn't a sharp puncher? In the final major win of his career, he was being dominated by Billy Costello. A single precisely placed punch abruptly won the match for Alexis.

Carlos Zarate probably wouldn't be categorized as being especially fast either, but the few times I watched him he certainly seemed sharp enough.

Sometimes, there can be a trade-off between blinding speed and force of impact. It seemed to me that Ali's hardest punches were not always blindingly fast. The left hook he shot down Bonavena with wasn't a blur. Nor was the hard right he kayoed Foreman with.

When discussing sharp punching for one shot kayoes, SRR has to be classic in that regard.

When it comes to powerful punching, Jeffries could be named along with Foreman. Cuevas and Fitzsimmons could also be tossed in.

 

What you've said is all relevant but I was more angling towards how powerful a puncher would Tommy be if his punches were not enhanced by the speed they were arriving at. For a 'sharp' type of puncher speed is useful. Would he end up like an Arguello instead, slow of hand but still a devastating hitter?

 

I don't think he would. Hearns didn't have the same kind of timing. That's what Arguello replaced speed with, as well as flawless technique. Same with Zarate.

 

Forgive me, if you will, for butting in with a comment here.

Danny Lopez wasn't particularly fast, but could hit with tremendous force. I wouldn't consider Mike Spinks a great speed demon either. Tommy still would be able to generate considerable leverage with his punching, and continue to inflict significant damage by virtue of his reach. But with diminished speed, Hearns might be eluded a bit more than he was. It doesn't matter how hard a punch is, if it doesn't connect solidly. In the case of placement specialists like Arguello, it doesn't even need to be that hard if it strikes a vulnerable part of the anatomy.

Hearns maintained decent power as a cruiserweight, and proved to be of championship caliber even without his earlier advantages of height and reach at WW. I think Tommy surprised a lot of people with his ability to adapt as his weight climbed. I'm satisfied that he probably did evolve the capacity to maintain his power, although if he was slower, his shots could be more easily evaded.

ps: My apologies, if this post has a bit of a ragged quality to it. I'm laboring under a bit of a fog at the moment. (Bad night's sleep. Trying to use this mental activity to snap out of it, but my day's probably a lost cause.)

 

I agree with you in that Tommy's leverage and reach would still mean that he'd still generate significant damage on opponents. If he had average handspeed then of course it would mean potentially less opportunity to land, but as you've demonstrated with the examples of Danny Lopez, Michael Spinks, Alexis Arguello etc lack of speed can be overcome with accuracy and timing. Tommy's 'power' though is possibly supplemented by his speed, not only for opportunities to land but via increased kinetic force as well. It seems that Hearns, Arguello, Lopez likely had genetic advantages that made them punchers also.

It's possible that an average hand speed Hearns could be become like an Arguello as he was a very good technician. His style would be different of course and he wouldn't be able to throw those fast, sometimes wasteful, flurries when he had a man in trouble. If he knew he didn't have great hand speed then he'd be forced to develop things like better timing and punch placement. Hearns, like RJJ, relied very much on his athletic talents and so it's kinda hard to say whether he could still be as successful without his demon speed.

 

Clean Punchers would include Louis,Arguello,Jofre,Robinson,Napoles.Clubbers.Foreman,Peter,Bruno.