Shavers in his own tier compared to Foreman and Lyle?

Was just going through some interview clips and started looking into who was amongst the top sluggers. I saw Leroy Caldwell give an interview saying the hardest hitters were Shavers, Lyle and Foreman. We know those 3 are typically brought up with Shavers being the hardest hitter, but what stood out to me the most was how Caldwell depicted them.

He wasn't too big on Lyle's power and indicated Foreman was a bit stronger, but he said Shavers hit harder "by far". That implies Shavers is in his own tier compared to even them and I suppose when comparing feats you could make an agreement for this. He described Foreman has having a 'boom' type of punch which to me implies it was a very heavy/weighted punch, but Shavers was described as being more akin to a shock which implies it was a fast hit, but also heavy considering the size of his hands and back.

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You’d think they were describing Vodoo with some accounts.

 

Within a roughly four month period, Ron Lyle fought BOTH George Foreman and Earnie Shavers, exchanging knockdowns against both. He beat one of them and gave absolute hell to the other. That was a crazy four months

 

Here’s the thing about several testimonies in favour of Shavers power - some of the fighters in question didn’t always hold the view that they eventually settled on, touting Earnie as clearly the hardest puncher.

Certainly, Tillis later switched his selection from Mike Tyson to Shavers.

I believe Caldwell previously afforded Foreman and Shavers at about the same power - their respective results were similar, I believe both KO 3 over Leroy - though I know that’s not the be all end all answer as to who hit the hardest.

Also, what is sorely missed in Cladwell’s overall assessment is his specific description of his fight against Lyle.

Leroy said he was aware that Lyle was a hard puncher, so Leroy pointedly stayed on the move in their fight - out of harm’s way.

I think Leroy also said that you can’t hurt someone if you can’t hit them.

So, of course Caldwell could factually state he took harder punches from Shavers - but that statement should also be duly qualified by the fact that Leroy didn’t taste Lyle’s best punches - which he confirmed himself.

Also, how does Stander rate Shavers as the hardest puncher he faced when one Jeff Merritt absolutely demolished him? - and we are fortunately blessed with clips from the Merritt fight.

Stander said getting hit by Earnie was like getting his hit over the head with policemen’s nightsticks - so I have to wonder - , what the hell did it feel like getting hit by Candy Slim - when Stander kept going up and down and looked like he didn’t know if he was Arthur or Martha? Or should I say, Ron or Rhonda?

 

I know, right? A participant in two of the most highly rated slugfests of all time within a very short period - and Ronnie was no spring chicken at the time. I’ve always had a soft spot for Lyle - it seemed he could’ve done better than he did.

Perhaps it was due to coming to the sport late, already being past a fighters generally afforded prime - and perhaps even some confidence issues. When he had mind to, the man was an elite puncher imo.

Foreman’s description of how it felt being hit by Lyle is unforgettable but genuinely reflective, without being ridiculously OTT or compromised by exaggerated, gushing praise.

 

Of all the 70s HWs I admire Ron Lyles journey the most - from dying on the table to fighting the best in the world.

 

If you add up all the testimony i do think Shavers was a level above, power wise.

 

I'd be really keen to see this if you ever come across it again. I've never known him to say any different but may have missed something.

Here's another interview from a similar time. He's extremely matter of fact, unemotional and clear talking about Shavers.

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No worries, will do JT. I’ll try to give it a pointed search a bit later.

I’d actually also be curious as to when Caldwell first said Shavers hit the hardest. Likewise with a few others, including Stander.

Notably, earlier in the piece, Tillis also said differently but his touting of Shavers was more popularly received, circulated and repeated.

But the fact remains that Leroy also rated Shavers above Lyle in terms of power (even using obviously intended hyperbole when saying Earnie hit harder than George and Ron combined) even though Leroy himself clearly indicated that he avoided sampling Ron’s true power.

 

Okay, I wrote a short spiel but inside your quoted reply - tried to cut and paste it outside the quote but it failed. Lol. Anyway, Leroys comments are at the 7:18 mark.

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Caldwell doesn't compare Shavers and Foreman there?

I remember many many years ago we had anecdotes in here regarding common opponents of Foreman and Shavers but i'm sure it was prior to a lot getting lost.

I guess he can only go by what he sampled against Lyle. Even blocking, parrying and taking partial blows from really big punchers can give you a fair hint of what you are up against. Lyle was green at the time obviously.

 

Well he is actually comparing them in so far as grouping those guys together and clearly not distinguishing Shavers from the bunch.

He’s stating that Bruno’s power is not different from that grouping - and that of course includes Shavers.

He didn’t say Shavers is the hardest puncher I’ve ever faced and I cannot separate Bruno’s power from Earnie’s.

As to Lyles power, sure Leroy can only go by what he sampled as I noted but then it’s obvious that Lyle’s power wasn’t eligible for realistic comparison.

However, when Caldwell is quoted as saying Earnie hit harder than George or Ron or both combined, the implication can be interpreted as his having taken Lyle’s best to sufficiently make make such a comparison - which he obviously didn’t (=really sample that power) by his own admission.

True, Lyle was green and Cleve well past his best when Caldwell engaged them

 

For me he's just throwing out the names of some big punchers he's faced and chucking Bruno in with them as a whole.

Caldwell was being employed and paid by Bruno and his team at the time and wasn't going to not talk Bruno up when interviewed to do pretty much just that. He was never going to say, well Frank is a big hitter but Shavers, man he's well above the lot of them, Franks well behind him.

That's my take. Bruno is a big puncher tho, lets not forget that.

 

All respect for your take Champ but Leroy clearly did say no difference and he didn’t just not isolate Shavers from Bruno - he didn’t isolate him from Foreman and Williams either.

If Leroy wanted to, to keep the faith, he could’ve just as easily have omitted Earnie and nominated just Foreman, Cleve and Ron or, keep Earnie in the bunch and simply say Bruno’s power was in that realm. No harm, no foul and still a great rave on Frank.

Or even, Leroy could’ve said Earnie is the hardest puncher I’ve faced in a fight - and Bruno is his equal in power - and that would’ve been apt IF Caldwell had previously nominated Shavers as THE man prior to that clip.

SO that leads me to think perhaps that Caldwell’s testimony re Frank also implied that Caldwell had not yet ever afforded Earnie the accolade for being the hardest puncher he had ever faced...an accolade that was to come later.

If there is testimony by Caldwell in favour of Earnie that predates the Bruno clip, that would be interesting to see/read.

As to ulterior motives, they can always be easily assigned if one wants to dismiss any testimony - Caldwell’s later testimony could be easily dismissed in similar fashion.

However, it obviously becomes problematic when accepting the same fighter’s testimony on one hand but dismissing that same fighters apparently conflicting testimony on another.

As I said, it would be interesting to lock on to the earliest known time when Caldwell (and the rest) nominated Shavers as the clear and away hardest puncher.

I’ve provided an earlier career reference which is, imo, in obvious conflict with Caldwells later, out and out nomination of Shavers.

And again, the older Caldwell expressly including Lyle as being eligible for fair comparison didn’t make sense for the reasons I outlined.

Leroy attested to the fact that he didn’t really taste Lyles power in a comment that was meant to promote Leroy’s defensive abilities and mobility - so it was either errant or disingenuous on Leroy’s part to include Lyle when he’s supposed to be speaking as a truly informed opponent re hardest puncher.

The earliest ref. made by Tillis re Shavers that I’m aware of was straight after his fight with Earnie when he IV’d at ringside.

But his preface was revealing. He said that Ali told him previously, before the fight, that Earnie was the hardest puncher he (Ali) had faced.

From that platform,Tillis went on to basically say he survived a KD and the fight against boxing’s hardest puncher - as if taking Ali’s lead in the bestowment of that heady title.

Tillis later went to face Tyson and then gave Mike the nod as the hardest puncher he faced.

However, at some later point, Tillis reverted back to Shavers as his pick - invoking OTT (but very popular) superlatives to describe Shavers power while at the same time, downing Mike’s own power well beyond reason - thereby discrediting himself in so far as him making a truly genuine comparison -

 

I'll keep my eye open for the earliest testimony. It was definitely around prior to the clips around 2020.

It's pretty hard to palate Leroy claiming Bruno hit as hard as Shavers when Shavers knocked him out cold, unless Bruno did the same or a comparable thing in sparring.