Shogun looks to be in decent shape...

Yawn. I think you're about 12 years old.

You don't think a peak fitness and peak sharpness version of Shogun is more competitive than a rusty, flabby, out of shape version? Even though we've seen peaks and troughs in Shogun's conditioning and performances before in his career?

That doesn't even make sense, and I think it's most definitely you that's the irrational nuthugger here.

Both Jimmie and I are saying something which is perfectly logical - that whether Shogun would've beaten Jones or not is not the issue, it's that he was in **** shape and would obviously have been more competitive if he was in top shape.

What you are saying is perfectly illogical - that it wouldn't have made a difference whether he was flabby and out of shape or whether he was in top physical condition.

Irrational. :deal

 

Rua got an exellent chin but he cant survive on that all alone

 

For starters, I can't possibly be a nuthugger because the term refers to irrational fans and I'm not a fan of any fighter; rather I like to watch good fights regardless of who puts them on.

Secondly, I, and any nonbiased logical person viewing this, don't see how in the hell you think conditioning could have aided a fighter that is at an obvious stylistic disadvantage to begin with and who couldn't manage to throw one punch before being swamped and mauled with strikes. If cardio king Nick Diaz got his ass beaten like that he too would have fallen without so much as a whimper.

Face it, your hero got beat from pillar to post for fifteen minutes with only the rounds breaking up the ass whooping during this so there just isn't any way that being in shape would have helped him. If you think it was so damn important I want to see a receipt for your bet if and when the rematch happens because I'm sure you can find some sick dog odds on Rua.

 

Shoguns camp has said both before and after the fight that he went in at 100%, he might have looked soft around the middle, but according to his camp he was as fit as he could be.

 

Must be one of those camps which don't like to make excuses, maybe they meant he was 100% injury free, who knows. The fact is, it is clear as day to see him gas immediately.

Shogun gassed like a pub brawler would when a fight lasts longer than 15 seconds.

No elite mixed martial artist should be gassing inside 3 rounds. Even if they get hurt their conditioning should be such that they can recover.

 

He got beat up like a ginger haired step-child.

He didn't just gas, his conditioning according to the best source we have was as good as can be, his gas was taken away from him (read: beaten out of him) by the superior fighter that night.

I tend to agree with Popkins on most of his posts, but this is one area where I'm at the polar opposite.

 

WTF? He didn't look "gassed" until he'd had the **** beaten out of him and had been smothered for the better part of the first round.

Dude, most guys not named Mauricio Rua would have been laid out unconscious after the first 3:00 minutes of that fight. Even fewer would have lasted until the third round.

It's mind-boggling that some of you guys honestly believe that Shogun would have just walked through all of the **** that he got hit with that night and KO'd Jones if were in better shape. He's an amazing fighter when he's on his game, but he's not ****ing invincible.

 

I did mention that it was clear Shogun couldn't handle the wrestling so its not the styles I am discussing. Rua gassed way too quick and Pride Rua would have ****ing brutal tear ups and get tired but not have completely shot his load and look like a zombie.

Rua obviously won't gas from just moving around but he wasn't prepared for a 5 round battle.

Quality work from Jones but its clear Rua isn't in the shape he should be in.

 

Shogun looked like crap but Jones deserves credit for dishing out the asswhooping, reminded me of Shogun-Rampage...

 

Yep, could not agree more.

 

Shogun can be in whatever shape he likes, he's my favourite fighter of all time, he just does not have the tools to deal with Jon Jones, who is the absolute worst style match up possible for him. He lost because Jones was beating the utter **** out of him from about 5 seconds in, no version of anyone recovers from that kind of beating.

 

It's hard for me to say whether or not Shogun was in good shape for the rematch. What I did notice that no one else seems to be talking about, was how much energy Shogun used while on the bottom. Shogun was pushing and shoving a lot, from his back, in the first round. Shape or no shape, he had to be fatigued after that.

 

His apologists are just going to tell you that had he been in shape he would have just helicopter swept him right off and subbed him mere seconds afterwards but you're absolutely right. Him spending minutes trying to deep half sweep a huge wrestler with that kind of base was going to leave him pretty fatigued regardless of his conditioning and when you add that to the near KOs and nasty body work Jones did in the first round it's hard to justify conditioning for anything that took place there. Fanboys can and will justify anything, however.

 

This is what I was trying to get at earlier in the thread. At one point in the first, Shogun managed to get a hold of Jones' leg and literally turned purple trying to sweep him. He expended all sorts of energy trying to shake Jones off of him, when you add that to the knee that he ate at the beginning of the fight, the strikes to his mid-section that Jones landed when he was on his back, the fact that Jones disrupted his breathing by placing his palm over his mouth and the monster shots that he got hit with against the cage when he was finally able to stand up, it's pretty clear why he ended the first round staggering around like a zombie.

Nobody would have been fine after going through a round like that. Like I've said repeatedly, I give Shogun a ton of credit for even lasting as long as he did under those circumstances.

 

Several guys here seem to think that a 100% healthy Shogun just walks up to Jones and knocks him out cold in under a minute. Unless there's some radical evolution to his take down defense, he'd still get dumped on his back whenever Jones feels like it if they fight again.