Should Ali have been stopped by the ref in the FOTC during the 15th round?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boxing125, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Boxing125

    Boxing125 Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ali was really hurt by the knockdown against Frazier in the 15th round. He even had to go to the hospital after the fight due to the punch he took. Ali did get up quickly but Arthur Mecente did not even bother to check if he was OK. Then Ali takes lots of punches on the ropes and looks spent for a minute afterwards.

    I know Ali lasted to the bell and the ref probably thought it was close on the scorecards in one of the biggest fights of all time so why stop it, but surely a boxer's well behind is paramount? I have seen lots of fights stopped when the boxer was in less trouble, without a knockdown. Also the ref seemed to miss a real knock down by Frazier in the 11th round.

    Am I saying the ref was poor in the fight? No. However, Ali was in real trouble of being stopped by the ref in that 15th round and another ref might have stopped it without the need for the judges to give the fight to the deserving winner.
     
  2. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    6,454
    Likes Received:
    9,451
    No. He shouldn't have, Ali hopped right up with no problem. He was able to follow Mercente's instructions. He had the strength to smother Frazier, and was effective later in that same rd. With some beautiful combinations, though Frazier absolutely dominated that rd. And Arthur Mercante sr. was one of the great referee's in the sports history.
     
    Sting like a bean and mcvey like this.
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,344
    Everyone talks about the 15th round and Frazier certainly put an exclamation point on it with that sizzling left hook! Ali got up, and was in shape to continue. No stoppage was needed.

    But the 15th wasn't Frazier's best round. He pounded the heck out of Ali in the 11th and had him hurt. You could score the 11th round 10-8 for Fraizer.
     
    greynotsoold likes this.
  4. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    10,316
    Likes Received:
    12,601
    Off-topic a bit, but the scoring system employed for this fight was the NY rounds basis with no extra points given for a knockdown or if a fighter was visibly hurt or battered. So the 11th and 15th were simply scored as Frazier's round. There was a supplemental points provision, but that could only be employed in the event a judge had scored the bout even. So if he had the fight scored 7-7-1 he could then employ the supplemental points for Frazier for his 11th and 15th rounds. It really was a flawed system compared to our 10 point must system. I recently scored this fight using the NY rounds system and had Frazier winning 7-6-2.
     
  5. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    41,974
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    ali wasnt hurt enough and the ref knew it from the night and from alis history of not being hurt
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,344
    I think Ali was hurt. Out of it on the way down, sometimes the canvas can wake a guy up. Other times is the fall that causes the damage.
     
    Flash24 likes this.
  7. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    41,974
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    hurt as in hit and down yeh, but not hurt as in needed it stopped.

    this is the point, Mendozi, not just " i think he was hurt". read the thread title.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,344
    Read by initial reply. I do not think the fight should have been stopped. Ali was okay to continue.
     
  9. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    41,974
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    ok Mendi, my apologies, ALi was fine to keep going as he wasnt a weak chinned w laddie we both agree - even if you think he was "out of it", which i do not agree and NOONE else does agrees with you there either.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  10. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    5,224
    This is first time i’ve heard anyone suggest the referee should have stopped the fight, certainly by the standards of the day,no way.
    Ali took a beating in that round and after the knockdown took a few more big left hooks from Joe without ever looking like going down again.
    I must say there seems to be a hint of a pro-Frazier agenda from the OP.
     
  11. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    25,088
    Likes Received:
    8,485
    Muhammad was fighting back effectively so yes Mercante was right to let it carry on.