Should Buster Douglas have taken a couple of easy title defenses first?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Oakland Billy Smith, Mar 8, 2019.


  1. Oakland Billy Smith

    Oakland Billy Smith Active Member banned Full Member

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    Would he have just lost his title on the first defense anyway?
    Was he better to cash out against Holy?
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    No, in a word.

    He was very likely to lose the title in his first defense, so it made sense to cash out against a big name.
     
  3. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Douglas was 246 lbs for the Holyfield fight.....15 lbs heavier than the Tyson fight.
    height 6′ 3½″
    reach 83″

    1990-10-25 : James Douglas 246 lbs lost to Evander Holyfield 208 lbs by KO at 1:10 in round 3 of 12
    • WBC World Heavyweight Title (1st defense by Douglas)
    • WBA World Heavyweight Title (1st defense by Douglas)
    • IBF World Heavyweight Title (1st defense by Douglas)


    Notes
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    This content is protected

    • Evander Holyfield, ranked as the #1 contender by all three major sanctioning bodies, was scheduled to face World Heavyweight Champion Mike Tyson on June 18, 1990, but plans changed when Buster Douglas, a 42-1 underdog, knocked Tyson out on February 11, 1990.
    • The Mirage Casino won the right to promote the fight by winning a purse bid of $32,100,000, beating out Main Events (Holyfield's promoter at the time), who bid $29,101,000. The Mirage's bid is still the largest winning purse bid of all time.
    • Douglas filed a lawsuit to break his promotional contract with Don King and signed a conditional contract to make his first title defense at The Mirage Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas, Nevada. Douglas claimed that King breached their contract when he tried to have Douglas' win against Tyson overturned. An out of court settlement gave King the right to promote a Douglas-Tyson rematch, but Douglas would first defend against Holyfield at The Mirage, a promotion in which King would have no direct pecuniary interest. Steve Wynn, owner of The Mirage, cut out the middlemen and promoted the fight himself. "Fighters see the wisdom of not needing to pay someone like Arum $3 million when they can talk to me themselves," Wynn said. "If we have a hot fight, people will buy it on pay-per-view. No hyping by an Arum or King will change that."
    • Douglas put on a lot of weight after defeating Tyson and entered training camp very heavy. Wynn was so concerned about Douglas' weight that he offered the champion private use of a hotel sauna. Wynn wasn't very happy when he discovered that Douglas called room service from the sauna on one occasion and ordered $98 worth of food.
    • At the official weigh-in, Douglas weighed 246 lbs, 14½ more than his weight for the Tyson fight. "Roll him in and carry him out," said Lou Duva, co-trainer of Holyfield, who came in at a svelte 208. Mirage oddsmaker Jimmy Vaccaro said there was a mad rush to the sports book after the weigh-in. "Over $150,000 was bet in one hour, and 90 percent of it was bet on Holyfield," he said. Holyfield had been as much as a 12-5 favorite. The odds went down to 7-5, but after the weigh-in, went up to 9-5.
    • Holyfield easily controlled the first two rounds. He landed 66 of 100 punches, while Douglas landed 20 of 69. In the third round, Holyfield feinted with a left and Douglas threw a right uppercut lead. Holyfield stepped back and threw a right cross, catching Douglas on the chin. Douglas went down, landing hard on his left side. He showed no inclination to rise. He wiped his face with his gloves, checking for blood, then rolled over onto his back and took the referee's count of ten.
    • Douglas made $24,075,000, the largest purse ever at that time, and Holyfield got $8,025,000. Paid attendance at The Mirage's outdoor stadium was 10,117, which produced a gate of $6,546,441. The fight generated about 1 million pay-per-view buys at an average price of $34.95, and closed-circuit telecasts netted about $1.5 million. Showtime paid $2.1 million for the delayed broadcast.
    • Wynn was very upset with Douglas' effort and suggested that future fights should be winner-take-all so boxers would have more incentive to win. Many others were also upset with Douglas, who had immense natural ability but suffered from a chronic lack of dedication.
    • Douglas retired after the fight. He ballooned to roughly 400 lbs, his blood-sugar count went up to 800, and he went into a diabetic coma. When he got out of the hospital, he started working out in the gym to lose weight. He lost about 150 lbs and decided to make a comeback. He won six consecutive fights before being stopped in one round by Lou Savarese. He fought two more times, winning both, then retired for good.
    • Fight Poster, Program Cover, Fight Ticket.
    External Links
     
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  4. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Life Lesson #1..........if someone is offering you 24 million dollars to fight, do consider it. No one bright ever said " no no, I'd rather risk that with some quick tuneups."
     
  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Buster Douglas didn't have many "easy" options.

    Holyfield was a mandatory. So Buster had to fight him or he'd by stripped by one of the orgs. (Can't remember which. I believe it was the WBA.)

    I remember Bob Arum offered Buster a fight with George Foreman. If I recall correctly I think the IBF agreed to sanction it if it took place. (We learned later the IBF was taking money from Arum on a fairly regular basis.)

    Of course, Don King wanted Tyson to get a quick return fight. When that didn't look like it would happen, he scheduled what was basically an eliminator between Tyson and Razor Ruddock (I believe they were the top two WBC contenders or close to it).

    So his options were basically three Hall of Famers - Holyfield, Tyson or Foreman.

    I don't think Buster would've successfully defended against any of them.

    And the lower half of the top tens were guys like Bowe, Mercer, Lewis and Morrison.

    There wasn't a lot of dead weight in the division at the time.
     
  6. Jamal Perkins

    Jamal Perkins Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I dont think with ruddock,holyfield,foreman all overdue for shots....a clamour for an immediate tyson rematch...and tough also rans like dokes...up.n commers like mercer,bowe,Morrison there....that there were two viable easy defences that would get past the press....who? Mason? Damiani? Those guys may well beat him on an off night.....the obvious 2 if u did go that way would be adilson rodriguez and say a suprise retread like gerry cooney or spinks or a bruno (back in 1990 you never had guys already beaten in every big fight recycled into another big fight like you do today with eg a david price and the far shallower pool today)....besides which again these last 3 might beat a unmotivated douglas
     
  7. joebeadg

    joebeadg Well-Known Member Full Member

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    he just should have trained. A well conditioned douglas could have beat holyfield. douglas was a very fine boxer
     
  8. thanosone

    thanosone Love Your Brother Man Full Member

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    He should have trained and he could have had 3 more big money fights. One of the biggest what if in HW history.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Easier said than done, given his issues at the time.
     
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  10. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    no because Holyfield was seen as a lighter smaller guy. I don't remember the odds, but I wouldnt be shocked if they were close.
     
  11. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Buster claimed all the crap going on with Don King and trying to strip him of the belts messed with his head .
    So he basically never got in to a good place in his mind to knuckle down and train for Holy field .That's his story anyway .
     
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  12. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    There are supremely bright people who prioritize other things over money; look at the lives of Wittgenstein and Tolstoy. I think it's safe to say Muhammad Ali knew very well that his refusal to participate in the Vietnam War was (regardless of whether one considers it morally justified) definitely not in his financial interests.

    Speaking purely as a boxing fan, no, Douglas should not have fought any tomato cans; he should have fought Holyfield as soon as possible and come in his best possible shape with an earnest effort. I'd have felt downright cheated if I'd bought that fight on pay-per-view.

    (I'm not slagging Douglas as a person. I've seen him in a couple interviews and he strikes me as an intelligent and likable guy.)
     
  13. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think we can both agree that Douglas' situation was nothing like Tolstoy's or Ali's. If there is a social justice aspect to turning down that kind of money, then that's a completely different story. Is it smart to do that, even if your name is Tolstoy or Ali or even Kaepernick? Probably not, but it's just, and that's enough.
     
  14. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    It was alike in the limited sense that one can easily conceive of motives that someone else in his place might have that would countervail his presumed choice to maximize his payday. Boxing isn't just a profession, it's a sport, and one's intrinsic pleasure in the sport and desire to compete to fullest potential may match or even outweigh one's desire to maximize income.
     
  15. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I guess I can agree with that, though the cynic in me is rolling his eyes a bit. I want to believe that side of humanity exists.

    As to Douglas in this situation..........well, he didn't even like boxing, did he?