Should Dempsey Have Fought Greb?

I've never been convinced that Greb really put much effort into pursuing Dempsey. I like McVey's point about Harry not fighting Wills, Firpo, etc. Greb never quite made it to the "logical contender" status. People on this forum look at how Dempsey and Greb did against common opponents, but they don't spend enough time putting their ear to the ground and absorbing the vibe of what was going on at the time by reading contemporary accounts in the newspapers. Yes, there was some discussion of a Dempsey-Greb fight, but there wasn't the same passion involved as in the case of Wills. Harry had his middleweight title and most people thought that was recognition enough. Making a big deal about Greb not getting a heavyweight title shot now is just an attempt to revise history without a solid basis in doing so.

I'm not saying Harry wouldn't have given Dempsey fits in 1922-25, especially over the 10-round distance. If the bout took place in New York, it would have been a 15-rounder, however. Ten-round fights to a decision weren't allowed in Philadelphia until 1923 or Chicago until 1925. Prior to those dates, boxing was either technically illegal (Illinois) or limited to six-round-no-decision bouts (Pennsylvania) so neither location would have been suitable for a title fight. In any event, I think Greb's chances against Dempsey were at least as good as Wills' during those years.

 

While Greb deferred to Wills, who he had a lot of respect for and believed would beat Dempsey, he tried to get a fight with Firpo and when a promoter tried to match them Firpo declined, instead trying to get the promoter to agree to a ham and egg opponent.

 

The fact that a middleweight like Greb was even considered a threat to a man like Dempsey is a testament to what a beast he was . I've been trying to find all I can recently on Greb and the deeper the dig the more impressed I am. Sugar Ray Robinson is considered the best pound for pound of all time, but if their were film of Greb I'm certain some opinions might just change

 

Probably true. Greb is sort of 'no win' for Jack whether Jack fights him or not.

 

The way some look at things nowadays, any of Dempsey's fights with sometime-lt. hvy's are an infamia , even when those boxers had had success against good fulltime heavies. There's a tension -- when there is not a divide -- between two ways of looking at the definition of 'Heavyweight': 1) over the weight limit of the next-lower class; and/or 2) fighting without weight limit. I think that, the further you go back, the more the 2) definition of 'heavyweight' was viewed as the more essential.

 

My theory is that Greb was camera shy.

 

Greb, Wills, Siki...even aged Langford or Johnson might have added some luster.

Godfrey, however, seems to be a modern affection. I remember reading an article in which a contemporary reporter described Godfrey getting the best of Dempsy in sparring, so that might have started the Godfrey thing. But he never really had the record, though he was known to "wear the cuffs."

 

Greb was undoubtedly one of the best challengers available, but he moved about between weight classes a lot.

This makes the argument more ambiguous than it is for say Wills.

 

By all accounts Greb gave Dempsey a bit of a beating in their sparring matches, so there's evidence that he could indeed stand toe to toe with Dempsey and win ... at least for a few rounds. What would happen in a longer match when Dempsey's physicality began to tell is anybody's guess. I lean towards Dempsey without much confidence. IIRC Dempsey himself said that he knew he could beat Greb but only if he was in top shape and that he wasn't inclined to go through such a gruelling camp when he could more or less roll out of bed and beat the rest of the guys around.

 

Based on resume I would say yes. But I don’t think (I could be wrong) that the public had a strong interest in that fight for whatever reason. I always had heard about Wills being denied as common knowledge but up until I came into this board did I hear about Greb being “ducked” as well. Greb was all risk and no reward for Dempsey. Imo. It’s not a huge miss on its own but when coupled with missing Wills it’s pretty bad.

 

If it paid well enough and was sanctioned Dempsey would’ve beaten up the local kindergarten teachers reputation be dammed let the promoters worry about angles, it’s a business. What I have to ask is what kind of cash was on the table for fighting Greb?