Should Floyd Patterson be criticized for for defending his title against

Patterson was the champ, so Machen would have been the #1 contender, depends onbow you look at it.

 

He wasn't injured and had not ****ed a bunch of fans off that you need to fill a stadium for starters.

You really think Patterson was scared of big hitters, getting in the ring with Ingo after what he did to Machen.

Are you really arguing Machen and Folley as big hitters.,

 

He certainly didn't do a good job of avoiding big hitters. He fought Ingo and Liston 5 times. Throw in Moore. That's 6 fights against all time great HW punchers.

The winner of Machen vs Folley would have faced Patterson, the fight was billed as an eliminator. But the fight was postponed two months shy of Patterson's yearly stadium defense, Machen got hurt, both men looked awful, and there wasn't a winner. As I pointed out articles from the press said "they disqualified each other"

So your arguing in the same post, Patterson was scared of big hitters, wouldn't fight them, but took one lightly?

 

Padded record? All these guy's records were padded with the same guys.

From 55-58

Machen beat Valdez, Maxim, Baker, Holman, Jackson.

Folley beat Valdez, Bethea, Bygraves,

Pastrano beat Layne, Maxim, Norkus, McMurty, Holman, Bygraves, and Besmanoff.

Harris beat Pastrano, Besmanoff, Baker, Norkus.


The only unique names Machen and Folley have are Bethea, post-Satterfield Valdes, and Jackson. Are those three really the difference between contenders and pretenders?

 

Floyd Patterson didn't match up well with Sonny Liston and probably Muhammad Ali. Liston and Ali each stopped Patterson twice. Yes, Patterson was also stopped by Ingemar Johansson in his first bout with him, but came back and scored stoppages in a rematch and a "rubber" match with the Swedish fighter. Patterson also lost bouts by close and disputed decisions to Joey Maxim, Jimmy Ellis and Jerry Quarry in addition to fighting Quarry in another bout which ended in a draw.

Ali's two stoppage wins over Patterson could be partially explained by the latter possibly being past his peak, especially in the second one. But Liston stopped Patterson in the first round in both of their bouts when the latter was the reigning champion in the first one, and a challenger in the second only ten months later. Liston had overwhelming advantages in strength, power and size.

Much like Patterson with Liston, Joe Frazier couldn't match up well with George Foreman. Frazier could match up well with all of his other opponents.

- Chuck Johnston

 

In 1959 Eddie Machen sued to prevent Ingemar Johansson from fighting Floyd Patterson. Machen had signed in May of 1958 a contract to fight Johansson w/o a rematch clause. He had asked for one but Johansson had refused. On September 13, the day before the fight, Machen's manager threatened to pull out unless there was a return bout clause. The promoter, and Johansson's advisor, Edwin Ahlquist, stood to lose not only the gate, and his expenses, but also his reputation as a promoter. He signed a separate rematch contract stating Johansson could not fight anyone else but Machen in the United States and could not fight Floyd Patterson anywhere in the world. Johansson challenged this contract on the grounds that Ahlquist was not his agent and he had not never agreed to these terms.

*aside--The promotion rights to this rematch were exclusively given-surprise-to the IBC.

The case went to court, and I just read the decision. Machen lost because the contract illegally restricted Johansson's right to a livelihood and career advancement. The judge did not rule on whether Ahlquist could commit Johansson.

But the judge in his decision did give some factual info about the ratings in 1958 in the following excerpts--

174 F. Supp. 522

Eddie Machen, Plaintiff

v

Ingemar Johansson, Defendant

United States District Court, S. D. New York,

June 9, 1959
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"In 1958 until September 14, 1958, the plaintiff was recognized by the National Boxing Association and 'Ring Magazine' (a recognized publication in the boxing world) as the Number One or Two challenger for the world heavyweight title. The defendant was the European champion and ranked 6th or 8th."

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So in this paragraph the judge makes it clear that someone other than Machen was ranked #1 by either the NBA or The Ring, but doesn't make it clear which is which. Folley would have had to be the other fighter rated #1.

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Later,

"On September 14, 1958, the fight was held between plaintiff and defendant resulting in the surprise knockout of the plaintiff by the defendant in the first round. As a result of his dramatic victory over Machen, Johansson was immediately thrust into a position of prominence in the boxing world. The November 1958 issue of Ring Magazine stated that as of September 16, 1958, Johansson was the number one contender, and Machen number five. The National Boxing Association listed Johansson as second and Machen as fifth."
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So the NBA, even though Folley couldn't beat Machen and Johansson KO'd him in the 1st round, stuck to Folley as the #1 contender (most likely, or they could have moved him up from #2)

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I get a kick out of the sportswriter prose of the judge ("dramatic victory") in a legal decision.

But Folley somehow rating ahead of Johansson after Johansson KO'd Machen shows these ratings are deeply flawed,

I just thought this court case was too interesting not to share with anyone who is as intrigued as I was.

 

Who are you talking about?

 

I think anyone could reasonably argue that they were bigger hitters than Harris who scored just 9kos for a 25% ko record.