Should Floyd Patterson be criticized for for defending his title against

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jun 19, 2015.


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  1. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Sure I can. Because Holman was rated above Valdes at that time after knocking out Satterfield.

    Harris beat Baker before Machen did. So another Machen won debunked.

    Ring has Valdes as #6 after Baker, Pastrano as #5, and Machen unrated going into 56. The article says #3 but not sure who had him that high after two upsets.

    Holman was #4 but Machen, Baker, and Pastranowould all pick him off.

    Well that loss came years later, so not the same logic.
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #61
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Once again,

    I provided a source that shows


    Valdes rated # 3 in the world going into the Machen fight.

    Holman rated # 8 in the world going into the Pastrano fight.


    So what means more, a victory over a # 3 rated man or a victory over a # 8 rated man? I am eagerly awaiting your answer


    The burden of proof is now on you
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    #62
  3. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Valdes was NBA 3, not Ring. Pastrano
    Was rated above Valdes and Machen by ring until the Harris loss.


    http://www.encyclopediasupreme.org/Ratings.txt
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #63
  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Okay so who was rated higher Valdes or Holman
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    #64
  5. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Valdes by NBA, Holman by RING. Like I said, I don't see either being a monumental win.

    Pastrano Was rated above Machen for well over a year at least. Harris loss and the timely Jackson win put Machen as the #1 but he was not head and shoulder above the pack. Certainly no Valdes win, established Machen...at least not in ring ratings.
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #65
  6. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    It apparently wasn't just a draw, it was bad enough showing that writers were saying neither deserved the shot...and again, the problem of Machen not being ready for Patterson's summer defense
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #66
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Who was better Harris or Machen?

    Who beat better fighters Machen or Harris?
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    #67
  8. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Machen was better but not by much.

    They both beat the same level fighter, but Machen had more longetvity and beat more. I wouldn't say either beat better comp.

    Who was not injured and could fill a stadium for a summer title fight?
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #68
  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Not by much? You actually think harris would have been competitive vs Machen? Everything Harris did, Machen did a lot better. Faster better boxer better defense harder puncher and much better chin. Harris had a glass jaw

    Compare Harris and machens performances vs liston.

    I don't see how you can possibly say both beat same level fighter.

    Machen beat prime valdes 2x, Quarry, jackson, D Jones

    Who did Harris beat on that level?
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    #69
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Edward, mongoose


    Interesting article here

    [url]https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19580720&id=j6EyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pOoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4174,1367114&hl=en[/url]

    "If Harris record showed more knockouts against known opponents, there would be a tendency to give him something of more than a long shot of winning against Patterson."

    " It has been the impression here for some time that the man who will beat patterson must be a bold fighter with a heavy punch. He must be able to walk through floyds blinding flurries and drive home the big punch"


    This article is spot on. Stylistically, Harris offers no threat to patterson

    Based on styles,

    Floyd would have a much tougher time with a fighter like cleveland williams or nino valdes
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    #70
  11. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    So? It's not a champions duty to probe the fringe for potentional stylistic threats.
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #71
  12. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Harris beat two guys coming off wins over Valdes.

    Pastrano Was better than Jones, at that point maybe even green Quarry.
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #72
  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    No he did not. baker beat Valdes in 53 and 55

    By 1957 baker was washed up when Harris fought him. Baker didn't even train for the Harris fight because his hand injuries were so severe. He was coming off a pathetic loss to journeyman Willie besmanoff and one sided shutout loss to harold carter

    Could Harris have beaten the 53-55 baker? Doubt it

    Charlie Powell fought a 34 year old Valdes in his last year of fighting whose reflexes and speed were faded
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    #73
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Jones beats Pastrano. Jones knocked out folley and nearly beat Muhammad Ali

    Stylistically jones would have chased pastrano down and out worked him. I know pastrano beat johnson but I didn't think he deserved the decision

    I scored Johnson-Pastrano 144-141 for johnson
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 21, 2015
    #74
  15. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    And Valdes was doing better? Well, he had that rebound which brings us to Powell.


    Powell killed the 58 Valdes rebound you were just bigging up on the last page to hype Machens win.
     
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    The Mongoose, Jun 21, 2015
    #75
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