Should Joe Gans be ranked above Benny Leonard?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010.


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  1. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    I've been reading and watching as much of Gans as I can get my hands on and recently I've been swayed somewhat when it comes to ranking him amongst Leonard and Duran. Moreso than any fighter of that era , Gans seems incredibly modern and complete, in many categories. He throws combinations and stunning, poweful short punches, is great at countering, slipping and parrying shots, and has very efficient, balanced boxer-puncher footwork.... His resume speaks for itself and I think that on the "pound for pound" or weight jumping level is greater than Leonard's.

    What do y'all think of Joe Gans? I never see many topics on the guy, but he seems to be one of the greatest ever.

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    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    #1
  2. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Langford considered Gans the greatest of them all at any weight, as did Fitz, very high praise from two fellow contenders for that distinction. Many think The Old Master still remains the P4P GOAT. I do generally rate him over Benny. Leonard wouldn't have minded. "If you have to go that far back to find somebody who can beat me, then I'm not worried." Gans, Leonard (and I reserve my use of that last name for Benny alone) and Duran make for a daunting top three lightweights to try placing in order.
     
    Duodenum, Nov 9, 2010
    Duodenum, Nov 9, 2010
    #2
  3. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Surf-Bat, Nov 9, 2010
    Surf-Bat, Nov 9, 2010
    #3
  4. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    I find it odd that somehow we have more footage of guys like Gans and Langford than Leonard and Greb.... You'd think there'd be much more on film of later fighters.
     
    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    #4
    Greg Price99 likes this.
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A strong argument can be made for doing so.

    Gans might well have dominated the deepest era in the history of the lightweight division.
     
    janitor, Nov 9, 2010
    janitor, Nov 9, 2010
    #5
  6. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For what it's worth----
    Jack Britton as a youngster sparred with Joe Gans, and later on as a veteran fought
    Benny Leonard...When asked by a reporter who would you think would be the winner a
    Joe Gans/Benny Leonard, picked Benny Leonard...The 2 best lightweights IMO...
     
    burt bienstock, Nov 9, 2010
    burt bienstock, Nov 9, 2010
    #6
  7. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Any fan of Ben must read Corner men by Ronald Fried
    Wonderful chapter on Manny Seeman Bens Trainrer
     
    SLAKKA, Nov 9, 2010
    SLAKKA, Nov 9, 2010
    #7
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Somtimes in a given weight class, you have one two or more fighters who clearly stand out from the rest of the pack.

    At heavyweight for example, Louis and Ali usualy ocupy the top two slots, then you have the rest of the field.

    At lightweight I think that Gans, Leonard and Duran stand out as the top three names, and a strong case can be made for any of them in the No1 slot.
     
    janitor, Nov 9, 2010
    janitor, Nov 9, 2010
    #8
    Greg Price99 likes this.
  9. stonehammerjack

    stonehammerjack Member Full Member

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    I think noone in history should be rated above The Great Benny Leonard.
     
    stonehammerjack, Nov 9, 2010
    stonehammerjack, Nov 9, 2010
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  10. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He usually does for me, by one spot. The reason being contemporary accounts/next-day reports, etc. moreso than anything else. He was as highly thought of as any fighter I've ever read. His dominance of such a loaded era in Lightweight history clearly justifies the praise.
     
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2010
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2010
    #10
  11. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Sadly, after the rioting following Jeffries-Johnson, there was for many years a ban on the interstate transportation of fight films. Fight films became much less profitable, and so there was less incentive to film fights.

    --

    Ted Spoon has a Leonard appreciation video that has some footage from the Leonard Tendler rematch

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrAs0Tyo5g[/ame]

    --

    Leonard - Tendler I


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfQwLykgKGE&feature=related[/ame]
     
    guilalah, Nov 9, 2010
    guilalah, Nov 9, 2010
    #11
  12. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    I have indeed watched Tendler-Leonard and I love it, I'm almost as impressed by Tendler as I am with Leonard. Leonard does a fantastic job of setting up his right and moving to keep Lew from getting set as well as a stellar left hand... I have to admit that part of my recent switch in opinion toward Gans has to do with his larger film catalogue, and the nature of his victories(pretty epic knockouts).
     
    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    #12
  13. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Joe Gans is one of the greatest of all time. I think Benny Leonard is the greatest of all of them.
     
    ripcity, Nov 9, 2010
    ripcity, Nov 9, 2010
    #13
  14. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    It truly seems that no lightweight could really compete with Gans. Walcott and Langford seem to have given him fights at least, but it seems like the men in his own weight class couldn't really hang with him.
     
    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    Swarmer, Nov 9, 2010
    #14
  15. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He wasn't in the best of conditions for the Langford fight, either. Still an amazing win given how young Sam was at the time, though.

    I agree with your statement, provided you agree with myself that the McGovern fight was almost certainly a dive.
     
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2010
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2010
    #15
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