Should John L Sullivan rank number one.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Reason123, Oct 8, 2015.


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  1. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    Slavin didn't challenge Sullivan until 1889. Same year Sullivan fought Kilrain. Does anyone know if Kilrain was as good as Slavin? I never read much when comparing the two. Also in Sullivan's challenge to everyone he included Slavin's name in it. Though Corbett was the one who came up with the money.
     
    Reason123, Oct 9, 2015
    Reason123, Oct 9, 2015
    #31
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Killrain was a superior bareknuckle fighter, who was contemporaneous with Sullivan.

    Slavin was a superior gloved fighter, who came along at the end of Sullivan’s reign.

    Hard to say which of them was better, though Slavin did beat up a shot Killrain.

    You would be on safe ground saying that Killran was a bigger obstacle as a bare knuckle fighter, than Slavin was as a gloved fighter, for a gloved fighter like Sullivan.
     
    janitor, Oct 9, 2015
    janitor, Oct 9, 2015
    #32
  3. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    Interesting, I never new they actually fought each other. Do you think there was a difference between the Kilrain that fought Sullivan and the one that fought Slavin?
     
    Reason123, Oct 9, 2015
    Reason123, Oct 9, 2015
    #33
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I would say a big difference, from what I can tell.

    The Killran that fought Sullivan was a potential rival, and after that he seems to have gone into the tank.
     
    janitor, Oct 9, 2015
    janitor, Oct 9, 2015
    #34
  5. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Looks like my upcoming book on Sullivan needs to be read by a lot of folks on this forum. Hoping to have it out by the end of the year.
     
    apollack, Oct 9, 2015
    apollack, Oct 9, 2015
    #35
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Hoping to have it by the end of the year if possible!
     
    janitor, Oct 9, 2015
    janitor, Oct 9, 2015
    #36
  7. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    I just read about the Slaving vs Kilrain bout. Looks like Kilrain just went 44 rounds with Godfrey just three months before that. While Slavin only had one 3 rounder with Charlie Mitchell barely two months before. I wonder if that could've played a role in Kilrain's performance. Having such a short rest after a gruelling fight.
     
    Reason123, Oct 9, 2015
    Reason123, Oct 9, 2015
    #37
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Did you read the full fight report? I think Mitchell did fairly well giving up a lot of size and power. I asked you a few questions. I'll check back for your reply later. Have a nice weekend
     
    Mendoza, Oct 10, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 10, 2015
    #38
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Oct 10, 2015
    janitor, Oct 10, 2015
    #39
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Mitchell tried to survive, by going down repeatedly without being hit, in the hopes that he might outlast Sullivan.

    If you find this impressive, then you are very easily impressed.
     
    janitor, Oct 10, 2015
    janitor, Oct 10, 2015
    #40
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Seamus, Oct 10, 2015
    Seamus, Oct 10, 2015
    #41
  12. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    historical significance could mean different things but the only people who i could see above him are johnson, dempsey and ali. Probably between ali and sullivan for #1
     
    kingfisher3, Oct 10, 2015
    kingfisher3, Oct 10, 2015
    #42
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    He is all the more impressive when you realize that he was essentially champion of two combat sports.
     
    Seamus, Oct 10, 2015
    Seamus, Oct 10, 2015
    #43
  14. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There's often the unavoidable assumption that trouncing your opposition equates to them not being very good. There may be some truth to it but only in proportion to what you know about them.

    It's also important to remember Sullivan was well past it for his three most famous fights - Mitchell (LPR), Kilrain (LPR) and Corbett.

    The most famous images of Sullivan are the pot-belied version. New fans are intrigued to learn he was once slim, athletic.
     
    Ted Spoon, Oct 10, 2015
    Ted Spoon, Oct 10, 2015
    #44
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Sullivan ducked Slavin. Richard K Fox who issued belts to fighters and was the editor ot the Police Gaztte backed the fight. Sullivan pulled a Rid**** Bowe and put the belt in the trash.

    You want a good source? How about Adam's book which says Sullivan could have fought Slavin before Corbett!

    [url]https://books.google.com/books?id=DkTYBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=sullivan+and+slavin&source=bl&ots=ta9l1Tfxj_&sig=jD2RjScaSOBKxq47GEFEbWDN3-k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAWoVChMI0oCU0ce4yAIVjOaACh3DbgA7#v=onepage&q=sullivan%20and%20slavin&f=false[/url]

    I asked you who was the best gloved fighter Sullivan beat? I say Mitchell and little Charlie was just 150 pounds for the Fight. Sullivan was 190.

    I asked you to list the best punchers of the time? Is that too much to ask. A reply would be nice.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 10, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 10, 2015
    #45
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