Should Larry Holmes be criticized for vacating the WBC title?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by themostoverrated, Dec 2, 2024.

  1. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Active Member Full Member

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    December 11th 1983: Larry Holmes the reigning WBC champion vacates his title, accepting recognition of the new IBF title.

    Holmes's reason seemed to be some money related dispute. Whatever it was, this was the first time in history that a reigning heavyweight champion vacated his title for reasons other than retirement. Holmes's decision to fight for the IBF title not only added to the mess of increasing number of sanctioning bodies, but paved the way for future champions (Bowe, Tyson, Lewis) to vacate their own titles and add to the glut of belts and titlists. With the WBA having it's own run of alphabet champions beginning with John Tate in 1979, the situation would get only worse with a slew of WBC champs (Witherspoon, Thomas, Berbick) holding this belt and the titles would not be unified until 1987.

    Should Holmes be blamed for his decision to vacate the title?
     
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  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I don't blame him. I think at that point in his career he could make a move away Don King's control. King had stolen enough of his $ not to mention showed Larry little respect on his way up. According to Holmes Don threatened to have Larry's legs broken if he didn't take a fight on 10 days notice against Tiger Williams.

    King was the WBC by the way. Holmes was getting older and wanted to get paid fairly and have independence. He did what he needed to do. There wasn't anybody in King's stable he was fearful of but he probably didn't want to be fighting those guys back to back to back for small purses.
     
  3. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Active Member Full Member

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    But didn't Holmes agree to fight Tyson on short notice when King threw a bundle of notes on Larry's table? So, was it really about financial independence or greater monetary benefits?
     
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    That was 4 or 5 years later. He was no longer champion when King lured him out of retirement. It was a fight Holmes didn't really want at that time he was finished. Don King kept upping the offer.
    Holmes had leverage.
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Of course he should be.
     
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  6. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No.

    While that was the start of the modern "alphabet" system at HW even before the HW title had never been truly unified a straight 10 years. With the period between Moore and Terrell being the closest it ever came. People have stopped acknowledging many of the old claimants but nothing really changed here except the USBA/IBF entering stage left.

    Holmes was "the" champion and he continued being "the" champion. There was no obligation to be "undisputed" at that time and this is something that started mattering later on and we're judging him for post ex facto. Holmes had wins over 2 of the next 3 WBC champions. While the WBC belt had more credibility than the WBA one from 1979 because Witherspoon and Pinklon were more serious claimants than Weaver and Dokes, it was not a threat to Holmes status.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No.

    The WBC are crooks. Larry didn't want to distance himself from them over matters of principle so i'm not suggesting any medals, but he swapped one goofy strap out for another goofy strap. So what?
     
  8. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Not wanting to do business with Don King is a legitimate excuse for everyone except Bowe and Rock Newman
     
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  9. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

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    Larry Holmes was the promoter of the IBF belt which IMMEDIATELY became a major belt mainly because of Larry.
    It took the WBO belt about 10 years to become a major belt, but it didn't have Holmes as a promoter.
    And the answer to your questions is - yes!
     
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  10. Ney

    Ney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    God damn this thread.
     
  11. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

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    To clarify this, the WBC was pressing Holmes to fight Greg Page, its top ranked challenger. However, Don King refused to offer Holmes more than what he would eventually get for fighting Marvis Frazier & a fraction of what he was later offered to fight co-titlist Coetzee (a fight that was scheduled after Holmes tossed his belt, but collapsed just weeks away from its date).

    Personally, I don't have any issue w/ Holmes telling the WBC to eff off b/c Page was never viewed as any kind of clear or consensus #1 contender by the general public or Ring magazine, he was just mandated by a single sanctioning body that just happened to be subservient to Page's co-promoter.
     
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  12. Jakub79

    Jakub79 Active Member Full Member

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    in no time? Holmes said in an interview after Tyson's fight with Biggs that he would be his next rival, and so it happen
     
  13. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No, because he dropped it to fight a better opponent.