Should Louis have fought more than two black men in his 26 title defenses?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 8, 2015.



  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Should Louis have fought more than two black men in his 26 title defenses, one of whom by the way was going blind and retired after the title shot at age 25.

    I'll offer the following names to consider, many of which were clearly better than some of the white fighters Louis gave title shots to.


    Ezzard Charles- 6'0 185lb 72"
    Elmer Ray- 6'2 195 78"
    Archie Moore- 5'11 185 76"
    Jimmy Bivins- 5'9 185 76"
    George Godfrey- 6'3 225lb 80"
    Lee Q Murray- 6'4 210lb (?)
    Lem Franklin- 6'2 200lb 76"
    Larry Gains- 6'1 205 77"
    Turkey Thompson- 5'8 210lb 73"
    Tiger Jack Fox- 5'11 175lb 75"
    Obie Walker - 5'9 230lb
    Harry Bobo- 6'4 220lb 78"
    Eddie Blunt - 6'0 220lb
    Hatchetman Sheppard- 5'11 180
    Leroy Haynes - 6'1 210lb 76"
    Jack Trammell- 6'6 185lb 80"
    Ed Bearcat Wright - 6'1 210
    Buddy Walker - 5'11 195
    Al Hart- 6'1 225lb
    Big Boy Bray- 6'1 215lb
    Willie Reddish- 5'11 190
    Johnny Haynes- 6'4 220
    Sid Peaks- 6'3 215
    28. Lou Brooks- 6'0 190lb
    29. Clayton Worlds- 6'6 195
    30. Big Boy Brown- 6'1 250lb
    31. Lorenzo Pack- 5'11 200
    32. Yancey Henry- 6' 195
    33. Perk Daniels- 6'0 190
    34. Tiger Ted Lowry- 5'10 180
    35. Otis Thomas- 5'11 205
     
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think he should have fought a gang of hatchet-wielding Chinese opium dealers. They were everywhere in the 1930s.
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    But were any of them ranked?
     
  4. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    look through that list and see who these guys lost to and you will see many of the guys Louis did fight. One of the best records in boxing. Remember Louis was the sole champion, rematched tough fights and was active and reigned very long. These things can not be said about most of the champions of the past and certainly not about Larry Holmes who did none of those things.
     
  5. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    M, it is so obvious that at least a few black heavyweights were more deserving at a MONEY shot at Joe Louis's title as MANY of his opponents...Growing up in the 1940s whispers of this were occasionally printed in the newspapers to no affect.
    Yet I have been posting this on ESB saying why only Jack Dempsey has been targeted as a "racist' for truly not fighting a deserving Harry Wills [though they signed for a bout]...Whilst my favorite heavyweight Joe Louis's brain trust avoided matching Louis with some deserving black contenders for reasons known only to themselves...One fight with Louis would have made more money for those fighters than they could ever make fighting each other time and again...
    P.S. I recall that reading boxing mags of those long ago days, Lee Q Murray
    was generally considered the best of the black avoided contenders...
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    No, but the rankings were rigged by the New Jersey mob to protect Joe Louis.

    Tony Galento was #1 contender, Primo Carnera was #2, and the rest of the top ten was five Octupuses (Octopi ?) and three kangaroos.
    Galento and Carnera never fought an eliminator, but Tony took care of the Octupuses and Primo took care of the kangaroos.
    This went on for 12 years.
    Joe Louis ducked them all, and fought Tony Musto 26 times. Was Musto even ranked ?
    I guess he musta been.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Haha.
     
  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    How do you explain Abe Simon losing twice to Lem Frankling and still getting two title shots while Franklin never even got a sniff?
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Maybe Abe Simon was a bigger draw.
     
  10. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How to explain??????? Four months after beating Simon he was koed by Pastor THEN his next two bouts he was koed in the first round by BoBo and Muscato. Are you seriously claiming Louis avoided Lem because he did not get a title shot during that four month period??????? Simon put up a great fight against Louis nearly closing his eye in the process. This is why Simon got a rematch and Lem did not get a title shot.
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    In other words Hatchetman Sheppard!
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Thanks Bert. The history of those alive in the times speaking on the topic is highly valued.
     
  13. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm "seriously claiming" that after Franklin beat Simon in October of 1941, he should have gotten the deal to fight Louis, and NOT Simon who lost and ended up meeting Louis five months later.. Why not have Simon fight Pastor to earn the right for a rematch and give the shot to Franklin, rather than the other way around? Oh I know why... Because it would make sense. Let's face it.. Simon got a rematch with Louis after only having won 2 of his last 6 fights.. Upon beating Simon, Franklin had a 17 fight win streak going with scalps over some pretty good fighters.. but instead of getting a title fight like Simon ( who lost twice to him ) the best he could get were two future fights with journeyman and of course Pastor who beat him.... Louis does not deserve the benefit of hindsight for Franklin's losing to Pastor..
     
  14. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Question is when was the second Simon fight signed? Do you know? Lem only became a "contender" by his victory over Musto which was not long before his Ko loss to Pastor followed by two first round Ko losses. Lems time line of opportunity was extremely short and you blame Louis for his shortcomings? You do not have all the facts but you jump to Louis avoiding Lem Franklin?
     
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    2 out of 25 does not = several.