Should Mike Tyson Come Out Of Retirement?

Mike cannot fight anymore.. He probably still has power, but not much else.

 

Fair enough, i get you with the strolling over and ko anyone bit, but if you watch tucker, ruddock, green, smith ect, you will see he did not struggle with them at all and won landslide decisions, they won maybe a couple of rounds between them!! So thats your idea of struggling?? Just because he didnt ko them doesnt mean he struggled. Hes been put on such a high pedastall over the years its the "in thing" to say how he struggles with tall fighters, loses when they fight back ect ect.
Hes starting to get underated alot these days.

 

No!!!!!!!!

 

i suppose it is a bit much to say he "struggled" with Green and Smith, even though they did survive the distance. He did deserve unanimous decisions against Tucker and Ruddock, but obviously those fighters gave him some trouble. The point is that the guys who did go the distance with or beat Mike Tyson were decently ranked big dudes, or else were Evander Holyfield. I do struggle with Mikes place in history. In his prime he never beat a great fighter, although he did spectacularly blow out some very good ones. History does forget that Frank Bruno, Pinklon Thomas and some others actually were very good fighters at that time.
Then in the 1990's think about this...if you magically swithed Mike Tyson out for say,Ray Mercer, is there anything Mike did that Ray couldnt have done? Could Ray have blasted out Alex Stewert? Could Ray have beaten Ruddock in two highly entertaining and competitive fights? I think so. Could Ray have given Evander a competitve fight only to get stopped late? He did that.
I guess in the end, I rate Mike Tyson as a very exciting puncher with an aggressive style who put a lot of asses in seats. He was on the cover of magazines and video games, sold a lot of PPVs and brought a lot of interest to my favorite sport. That is his legacy. as far as his actual standing in history, I suppose I rate him like I would Frazier if Frazier had lost to Ali the first time also. Short but exciting prime with no real signature win.
The current champion has had an extremely long reign and has established himself as the best of his era, clearly. Yet he also doesn't have that big signature win and he hasnt really generated much excitement.

 

The guys who beat Mike Tyson were Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, 2 of those guys are top ten ATGs and they didnt face Tyson at his best. all these other big men Tucker, Green, Tillis and Smith won hardly a handful of rounds between them. Tyson didnt 'struggle' with any of them including Ruddock who Tyson beat pillar to post twice.

In his prime he fought 2 great fighters, neither had been knocked out before, Tyson knocked them both out.

Well for a start, Tyson beat Holmes and Ferguson, something Ray didnt do.
Secondly Tyson clean out his division, something Ray didnt do.
Thirdly Tyson won legitimate titles and was the undisputed champion, something Ray didnt do.
Fourthly, Tyson went to prison, came out and still wont 2 legitimate belts, something Ray never did.
Tyson knocked out a whole host of fighters who'd never been stopped before, Ray didnt beat anyone worth squat, oh except Tommy Morrison in a fight he was losing anyway.
Ray Mercer should never be mentioned in the same breath as Mike Tyson.
Magically swathe Tyson out and replace him with Mercer? Mercer didnt do **** in his own career, what makes you think he could replace Tyson?
Tucker, Tubbs, Holmes (oh wait, he did), Berbick, Thomas, Ruddock would have beaten Mercer as would Buster Douglas.

Coulda woulda shoulda, Ray had opportunities and he didnt do ****, Tyson made the most of what he had and cemented his legacy. Thats why Mercer will always be known as a poor mans Mike Tyson. Put Ray Mercer in prison for 4 years and then put him in with Holyfield and Lewis and see what happens.

Sorry Tyson doesnt have a signature win? He knocked Larry Holmes the **** out, Holmes was the old guard and then Tyson demolished his biggest rival Spinks in 91 seconds. Who was Holyfields biggest win then?

Its a bit bizarre you claim Mercer could do what Tyson did, yet....Tyson knocks out Holmes (who you gave him zero credit for) and yet Holmes took Mercer to school but you totally ignored that?

Not only should Mercer never be mentioned in the same breath as Tyson, Tyson would beat the **** out of Ray Mercer.

If you want to compare Mercer to Tyson, name me Mercers top 10 wins, if thats too difficult, name me his top 5 wins please.

 

He should come out and fight Ricky Hatton for the HW title of the world

 

Who did Tyson struggle against?
Please enlighten me?

But isnt that exactly what Mcall, Rahman, Purrity, Sanders and Brewster did?

You seem to be selective in saying Tyson 'struggled' against big fighters (ignoring or completely unknowledgable of the fact that they hardly won a handful of rounds between them), but then claim Tyson CANT knock out Lewis or the Klits, when lesser fighters did, a total of 5 of them.

 

Mercer wasnt positioned to fight Bruce Seldon and Frank Bruno in 1995 and 1996 like Mike was. If he was, Im saying he could have gotton the same results. Mike had a similar fight to Rays fight with Tommy Morrison when he fought Franc Botha, only difference being that Tommy is obviously way better than Botha. My overall point is that starting with the loss to Douglas, Mikes career was more about positioning him into easier fights that they could still sell, so Im not overly impressed with Mikes career past the 80's and feel at that point he was a wonderfully maneuvered, pretty good heavyweight. Something that could have been done just as easily with Ray Mercers skill set if he was the one who was generating the excitement to put all those asses in seats.
Your point about Ray getting embarrassed by Holmes is an excellent one and in some ways does put a huge damper in my argument. Especially since Mike knocked out Holmes when he was some 6 or 8 years younger. I wish Larry had taken a warm up fight or two after the 2 year retirement before fighting Mike, but he didnt. He was much more active before the Mercer fight, and obviously Mercer forgot to train for the Holmes fight. That being said, laziness is a weakness in a fighter just like a poor chin or lack of power. Ray only has himself to blame for his poor work ethic.
So in closing I say that youre Holmes comparison is an excellent one. On the other hand, I do remember Tyson and Mercer having a contract signed to fight in 2002. Lennox Lewis sued to prevent the fight because he had a promissory note to fight Mike and could over rule a warm up opponent. It seems obvious Lennox feared Ray would beat Mike and ruin their huge money fight. I feel he was right and that was a good move. But that is 2002 Mike and not really the same subject I suppose.

 

Why wasnt Mercer in those positions? is it because he was a let down everytime he stepped up?

Firstly, I dont agree that Morrison was better than Botha, theyre about the same level.
Secondly Morrison IS Mercers best win,whereas Botha is just another good win for Tyson.
Thirdly Mercer was in his prime when he was getting schooled by Morrison, Tyson was coming off two defeats and 2 years inactivity when he fought Botha and was in the final third of his career.

Absolute Bull****. Tyson beat Alex Stewart in one round. Stewart gave good accounts of himself against the other top heavyweights of the time, Holyfield, Foremand and Moorer, Tyson was the only one who ko'd him in one round.

Tyson then fought the dangerous Razor Ruddock not once, but TWICE, how many fighters face a dangerous contender in his prime twice back to back?
The same Ruddock who was openly avoided by Holyfield (who opted to face grandpa Foreman) and Bowe wanted nothing to do with Ruddock either.

Had Tyson not gone to prison, Holyfield was next on his hit list and Foreman and Bowe after that, hardly sounds like someone who was being 'maneouvered'.

Tysons post prison record is poor and thats down to management, he fought Bruno (who gave Lewis one of his toughest fights), he beat Botha, Golota (who beat the **** out of Bowe twice), fought Holyfield and Lewis (the two heavyweights that actually mattered). He also ended his career wins with a victory over Clifford Ettienne who beat Brewster, who beat Wlad Kliscko.

Thats exactly it, what was stopping Ray Mercer doing all these things you're attributing to him?
Maybe its because Mercer simply wasnt that good.

No thats incorrect Lennox wasnt 'afraid that Ray would beat Tyson' Lennox threatened retirement and Tyson needed the money so he left the Mercer match and fought Lewis instead for more money.

Ray was just as bad as Tyson was in 2002, Tyson gets stopped by Lewis in 8 and Ray gets stopped in 6 by Wlad

 

Oh wow, the **** is getting deep in here now. Razor Ruddock couldn't get to the 5 minute mark with Lennox and got kod brutily by Tommy Morrison. Yet Tyson struggling to get over Ruddock is a great win, but Ray beating Morrison is crap?!? Sounds like someone has Iron Mikes balls on their chin to me. Mike was 27 when Evander beat the dog **** out of him, yet you confidently predict he was gonna tear through Holyfield, Bowe and Foreman if he hadn't taken down a beauty queen? Making **** up that Mike didn't accomplish is not evidence of Mikes supperiority, especially since one can make a strong argument that he ducked George. The reason why King put all his promotional muscle behind Mike is because there was an abundence of morons he could sell Mikes bull**** aura to, and apparently still could. Don has openly addmited that getting the title into the hands of a washed up Bruno and china chin Seldon so he could line them up for Tyson was his greatest achievment. I am pretty shocked that there is still people out there that buy that ****. Wow.

 

Thats because you absolutely know **** all about boxing. Ruddock was in his prime when he fought Tyson, when he fought Morrison he was coming off an 18 month layoff. Just because Lennox beat Ruddock quicker, doesnt make Ruddock less of a fighter, is Terry Norris better than Marvin Hagler? after all he destroyed Mugabe in 2 rounds whilk Hagler took longer?
Razor Ruddock ghet6s the **** beaten out of him for 19 rounds, he even admitted afterwards that fight took everything out of him, so its no wonder that Lewis, another great puncher, does the job on Ruddock. That does not take anything away from Tysons win.

When did i say he was going to tear through them? the point i made was, Tyson was planning on fighting them next had he not gone to prison, which was to answer your bull**** point about Tyson being 'cleverly' maneouvered.

secondly, its now become obvious your just a deluded trolll who doesnt know ****. Tyson was 30 when he fought Holyfield who was 34, that is a 4 year age gap, hardly the big gap you're trying to emphasise, and even then you got that wrong. Mike Tyson was born in 1966, he fought Holyfield in 96 and 97....according to you that equals to Tyson being 27?

I love the whole bull**** about how Tyson ducked Foreman....when he was preparing to face Evander Holyfield. Thats like accusing Wladmir of ducking an old fart like James Toney so he could fight prime David Haye instead. Foreman wasnt even relevant until AFTER he lost to Holyfield.

Why would Tyson duck George who he would have beat the living **** out of? Tyson fought Razor Ruddock instead twice, who was actually ranked, respected and feared much more than Foreman during that period. Foreman was lucky Holyfield decided to duck Ruddock and opt to fight Foreman, if it wasnt for the Holyfield fight.....Foreman wouldnt even have a second career. It was only after that fight that people realised Foreman was no joke, around that samke time Tyson was facing Ruddock and getting ready for prison.

Now, would you like me to go through a list of guys Foreman blatantly ducked? The Tyson fight was offered to Foreman multiple times, Foreman always found a reason to squirm his way out. Foremans exact comments on the situation 'I was more scared of King and the dotted line than the fight with Tyson'

Wait a minute.....Tyson ducked Foreman, but fought Seldon? Lets see why. Maybe its because Foreman ducked, (yes he blatantly ducked) Tony Tucker (Yep Tysons leftovers), and then he was stripped of the title which Seldon then won.

How did Bruno win his belt? he beat Mcall, who had just KTFO Lennox Lewis.

So Tysons 2 belts were courtesy of Lennox and George. Because Lewis was knocked out by Tysons sparring partner and Foreman ducked Tysons leftovers

Bruno and Seldon were champions, they held belts, Tyson wanted the belts. I cant see how that was some sort of masterful marketing campaign by Don King? Most, if not all fighters want to win the belts, so its no surprise Tyson did too.

Also if you did your research, you'd see that after the Holyfield fight, King had outline Tyson s fight plan, Michaelr Moorer, Mcall, Mercer, Morrison, Briggs and Foreman were lined up as his following opponents.

I dont think you're going to come back with an educated response, because you've pretty much exhausted the list of usual bull**** about Tyson were so used to hear, and you've been disproved.

You tried to downgrade Tysons achievments by saying Mercer could have done the same. but this backfired on you because Mercer didn't even do jack**** in his own career, he couldn't even beat Holmes or Ferguson YEARS after Tyson beat them.

The usual tactics from Tyson haters
'he struggled with taller fighters' (even though he barely lost any rounds)
'he ducked foreman' (to fight Holyfield)
'Tyson was nothing special, even Ray Mercer could do what Tyson did' (ask Larry Holmes)
'Mercer beat Morrison, which is just as good as Tyson's win over Botha' (Lets totally ignore the rest of Tysons career shall we, we cant do that with Mercer, because outside of Morrison, he didnt beat anyone else worth ****)

:hi:

 

Ok then, here is my rebuttle. Obviously, the point here is that Mike Tyson was a wildly over-rated but well menuevered heavyweight in the 1990's, who always had a harder time with larger heavyweights. A topic you are having trouble comprehending, so I will try to make it simple enough for you.
1st, Mike starts off the decade by getting ktfo'd by Buster Douglas. Enough said about that. Then he has the opportunity to make big money in an easy comeback fight vs George Foreman, but he wants no part of George even though George is game and Don King wanted to make the fight. This is backed up by both sides. King, his matchmaker, Georges people and the trainers and reporters who were close to the situation. You can not admit Tysons limitations, but that doesnt mean Mike didnt know them , as evidenced by this article
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/foreman_tyson_fl.html
Next he took on Henry Tillman. Tillman had already been kod in one round and lost 4 fights, but whatever. It was a comeback fight. Then came Alex Stewert. Tyson blitzed him out in 1, as expected. It was one of 4 ko losses Stewert suffered in the span of 8 fights. Decent win for the fledgling contender that Mike was at this point.

Ok then, Razor Ruddock. Good wins. My only problem here is that before Tyson, Ruddock had actually been stopped in his only loss by David Jaco. The same David Jaco who had been stopped by Mike Tyson in 1 round years earlier and was stopped by everyone else youve ever heard of. (His son later would be a ko victim of Kelly Pavliks in Kellys last comeback attempt, but I wouldnt know that since I know nothing about boxing.) After Tyson was severly rocked in the 6th round of the first fight, you know what happened in the 7th. The rematch went all 12. Tyson scored 113 on one scorecard, 114 on the other 2. Last I checked, 12 rounds to nothing is 120. So obviously, Mike lost more than "Nary around" or whatever dip**** expression you used.
Tysons next victim was Desire Washington. What a guy.
After prison, which I believe merely prolonged Mikes professional life by putting off matches with Holyfield and or Bowe, Mike Demolished Peter Mcneely and Buster Mathis Jr. Wow, impressive stuff.
Then came Bruno, who was previously TKO'd by Tyson and Lewis already. Yes, he had won the WBC title by decision from one punch wonder and known crack head McCall. Decent win, but nothing Mercer couldnt do. Especially considering Bruno was crossing himself constantly, holding all the time, and clearly scared sh1tless.
Then comes Bruce Seldon. A man who had previously been stopped by Riddick Bowe in 1:42. I have no idea how Seldon managed to ever beat Tucker. Never saw that fight. I did see a horrified man lay down at the first sign of contact from Mike though. Forgive me if Im not impressed.
Then he got the **** knocked out of him by Evander Holyfield, a former cruiserweight who was the best fighter of the 90's, but a small heavyweight none the less. Then in the rematch, while being down 2 rounds on the scorecards, he bites the fukcer! Again, what a guy. This is when the circus begins. After serving a suspension, he fought all time great Fans Botha. Great one punch KO in the 5th. But lets not forget, he was down 4 rounds to 0 on two of the judges scorecards. To Frans Botha. He closed out the decade by punching Orlin Norris after the bell, and somehow managed to earn himself a NC instead of a DQ. Ah, the power of celebrity. At least my chubby old buddy from the local gym here in Wisconsin, Harry Funmaker, managed to go 5 with Norris.
I loved Tyson. I wasn't a hater. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit I have "Iron" tatood on my ****ing arm for him. The difference is, I grew up. I realized I had been conned. Mike has even said his career was effectively over after the Douglas fight. The guy was a hype job after 1989, and dominated a weak division before that. He didnt fight Lewis or Bowe or Foreman in his prime, because he knew he would be in big trouble. Its ok to admit. Its big business after all. The only great of his era he fought was Evander, whe was the REAL DEAL.
In closing, Ill say some random insults back like YDKSAB, get your head out of your ass, get Mikes balls of your chin and look at the facts, blah blah blah. Sorry I destroyed the myth you have in your head of some all time dominate heavyweight. The guy was a good, exciting heavyweight for a little while. That should be good enough. Tyson the giant slayer has always been a myth. Thanks for playing, you are a dumbfuk. Now eat it :smh:smh

 

i'd like to see him fight RJJ

 

No, but Tyson could make huge money fighting some of Wilder's opponents and knock them all out.............

 

Exactly as i predicted in my previous post, a completely ******ed uneducated response from a complete twat :good

You didnt answer a single one of my points with genuine factts, just a load of 'Holyfield beat the **** out of him' 'Iron Mikes balls' etc etc

You started off your posts by trying to be a little smart alec by accusing Tyson of 'struggling' to beat taller fighters, when that was disproved you turned to Ray Mercer, when i made you look like a complete twat, then your resort to name calling. Well Done!

you just joined my ****** list :good